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Author Topic: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?  (Read 662 times)

Offline Joe_Beer

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Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« on: June 08, 2024, 04:26:04 pm »
Many years ago, I tried a beer called "Bitter Woman IPA". It was a new thing for me as I wasn't really drinking IPAs. I couldn't believe how bitter the damn thing was. It was awful. but I kinda liked it in a way that I can't explain.  The IBU on this beer is 68.

Fast forward 15 years. I'm brewing IPAs right around 68 IBU and I can't taste the bitterness. If you add up the FWH, boil, late addition, hopstand, and dry hop, I'm  using 12oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. It's on the low end of my preference. 14oz is closer to what I like and I seem to be gravitating towards a recipe with Galaxy, CTZ, Simcoe, Citra and El Dorado.  I know two guys who are repulsed by my IPAs, and two other guys (definite hop heads) who can't get enough of it. Same batch.

I've been a little puzzled by this. Sure, beer is subjetive, but has anyone noticed that their hop additions increase as time goes on? Almost like you build up a tolerance to whatever is in them that makes them delicious and you keep adding more to try and get the aroma and flaovor your shooting for? 


Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2024, 04:31:01 pm »
I find myself going the other direction.

Online Megary

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2024, 06:27:30 pm »
Yeah, subjective for sure.

But I think it’s all about the balancing act of the overall beer.  68 IBU’s certainly doesn’t have to seem bitter if the malt, hops, yeast, water, attenuation all line up nicely.  I just think your brewing skills are what’s making your beers click.  Hop away!

Offline Drewch

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2024, 08:13:35 pm »
Also, unless you're getting your batches tested in a lab, there's no guarantee that you're getting 68 IBUs in your IPAs. The Tinseth formula that most software uses is only going to get you ballpark approximations.

Edit: it's also true that taste perception generally weakens as you age; so it really could just take more bitterness to taste bitter to you now.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2024, 08:16:16 pm by Drewch »
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Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2024, 04:34:59 am »
I used to despise IPA(s). But as time marches on I’ve learned to tolerate them and have found myself seeking them out lately.


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« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 04:37:47 am by BrewBama »

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2024, 06:42:00 am »
Balance is the key to a really good IPA and very few people get it right. Most craft brewed ipas that I have had are downright terrible. They've managed to make them bitter, no getting around that. But very often the beers just suck.

Hop Management in the kettle and fermenter is the art that needs skills developed. I've made in one case the best IPA I've ever tasted, and made that same recipe multiple times and I dumped it. So I don't claim to have all the answers, but there's attention to detail that needs dealt with. Imho, you really need a lower ph in the mash and in my opinion you can't use lactic. Phosphoric or bust. You can't let ANY hop matter get into the fermenter. Get it cold in the kettle and settle it out, take the clearest wort you can and throw the rest away. If it spends 2 weeks on those hop solids you may as well just dump it before you put it in the fermenter.

In my opinion, I think far too many people accept IBU numbers as gospel and don't consider that there are many things coming from those hops. You can make beer with absolutely massive hop flavor without it being harsh. I think several of the keys must be counterintuitive because when I go back to my notes and try to make an improvement upon such beers I often times make them worse. So what I think is a common sense change clearly isn't a common sense change.

I have often told this analogy to with respect to hops in brewing. Think of when you eat celery. Some parts of the celery are really flavorful, mild and delicious, other parts very harsh. And even if you eat the really delicious parts and simply keep chewing, eventually you get down to the fibrous pieces which are considerably more harsh. The same thing happens with hops. When you first begin extraction you get really wonderful hop flavor. If you keep going too long, you get horrifying harsh bitterness. I've had that with numerous craft brewed ipas and it's to the point I don't even want to try anybody else's crap anymore. Brewing software doesn't care which one it is, hop flavor or bitterness, it just calls it ibus. If you don't believe that, taste your wort 2 minutes after you throw the first bittering hops in. I don't care if you've got 8 oz of Magnum in there, it'll still taste great. But don't give 8 oz of that another 2 minutes. LOL

Something in my brewing process doesn't lend itself well to IPA anymore. I've more or less stopped trying to figure it out because I just can't drink the high gravity beers anymore. That and the sheer cost of the beers at $50 a 5 gallon kit. Since 2018 I've dumped three $100 batches of Pliny the Elder kits and one $100 batch of Blind Pig. All 4 of those were superior to a number of beers I've paid good money for someone else to make. I'm going back to 5 gallon batches before I do any more experimenting with it, that's for sure.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 06:44:57 am by CounterPressure »

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2024, 06:59:21 am »
Most craft brewed ipas that I have had are downright terrible.


 ???
I suspect we are drinking very different craft beers, or maybe I’m just more forgiving.   :)

I enjoy IPA’s but I don’t make a lot of them because it’s so easy for me to find a good one just about anywhere.  Granted, many taste very similar, no matter what hops they use so it might be harder for the great ones to stand out, but I definitely think most craft IPA’s are at least good.  Subjective, of course.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2024, 07:28:34 am »
Seven or eight years back we did a trip around Bavaria visiting breweries for 3 weeks. I concentrated on Helles and Dunkel two lightly hopped styles, very few Pilsners. When I got home the IPA I had been loving was too much for me. My lupulin threshold had decreased. After 3 or 4 tries of drinking the IPA I got to the point where it was enjoyable again.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2024, 07:51:07 am »
I'm going to guess that some of this is mental too.  Imagine years ago when you might be drinking beer that was 15-20 IBUs.  That first IPA was a huge shock to your system and may have seemed "terrible" because "why on Earth is this beer trying to hurt my tastebuds!?" but eventually you ended up liking it.  But it's never going to be the same as that first one.  Knowhaimean? 
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Offline denny

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2024, 08:31:36 am »
Like any food product, you develop a taste and tolerance. The first time I tried coffee I couldn't stand it. Unbelievably bitter and astringent. Now I can't live without it.

As to balance, that's a subjective thing. I want my IPAS to "balance" with a slap of bitterness.
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Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2024, 08:38:06 am »
???
I suspect we are drinking very different craft beers, or maybe I’m just more forgiving.   :)
It's probably a little of both, and I maybe wasn't as precise as I could have been. Generically speaking, when I say craft brew I don't mean the big name commercially available stuff that's been around for 30 years and is very successful. It goes without saying lots of those are great beers. I mean this more from a home brewer standpoint where I'm talking about the microbreweries and brew pubs which is what I'm more likely to go out to try. Here in North Central PA, I don't think there's a single large commercial Brewery within two and a half or three hours drive. If we talk now about the big guys, I'd say it's about 50/50 on me being willing to purchase a second bottle of their ipa. And I say that for the traditional and West Coast ipas, not the sweet n hazy crap they make around here. What I would call perfect examples of the style would be Lagunitas, DFH 60 Minute, Founders All Day, Perpetual tastes great but has too much alcohol, Russian River's Pliny (which tastes nothing like the kit btw), there's loads of them from good to great. But if you ask me about any of 15 craft breweries around here that sell their own beer on draft, I can think of one that has an ipa I will even drink. But it is certainly not worth drinking that stuff and missing out on their other much better beers.

Ipas are super easy to brew... Good ipas? Not so much.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 08:40:04 am by CounterPressure »

Online Megary

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2024, 09:25:42 am »
???
I suspect we are drinking very different craft beers, or maybe I’m just more forgiving.   :)
It's probably a little of both, and I maybe wasn't as precise as I could have been. Generically speaking, when I say craft brew I don't mean the big name commercially available stuff that's been around for 30 years and is very successful. It goes without saying lots of those are great beers. I mean this more from a home brewer standpoint where I'm talking about the microbreweries and brew pubs which is what I'm more likely to go out to try. Here in North Central PA, I don't think there's a single large commercial Brewery within two and a half or three hours drive. If we talk now about the big guys, I'd say it's about 50/50 on me being willing to purchase a second bottle of their ipa. And I say that for the traditional and West Coast ipas, not the sweet n hazy crap they make around here. What I would call perfect examples of the style would be Lagunitas, DFH 60 Minute, Founders All Day, Perpetual tastes great but has too much alcohol, Russian River's Pliny (which tastes nothing like the kit btw), there's loads of them from good to great. But if you ask me about any of 15 craft breweries around here that sell their own beer on draft, I can think of one that has an ipa I will even drink. But it is certainly not worth drinking that stuff and missing out on their other much better beers.

Ipas are super easy to brew... Good ipas? Not so much.

North Central PA, huh?  I’m in NE PA.  Maybe we should get together and settle this over a pint!  lol.

Perpetual is currently my favorite IPA.  Can’t get enough of that beer.

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2024, 09:30:39 am »
Well, I'm just sitting here staring at a fermenter bubbling once per minute. LOL

I'm about 45 minutes away from therapy brewing and I think they're open
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 09:34:51 am by CounterPressure »

Offline rburrelli

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2024, 10:01:05 am »
Like any food product, you develop a taste and tolerance. The first time I tried coffee I couldn't stand it. Unbelievably bitter and astringent. Now I can't live without it.

As to balance, that's a subjective thing. I want my IPAS to "balance" with a slap of bitterness.
I agree. I like bitterness to be the last thing my taste buds note when taking a sip. It should be nice solid note that does not knock you out.
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Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Hop Tolerance/burnout ?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2024, 10:06:02 am »
This pretty much sums up my opinion of our local ipas. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ond8eTTfEgw