[Clint Yeastwood]

I said I preferred BIAB to using a Braumeister because of the ease, and someone claimed BIAB wasn't as good because I couldn't do a step mash. This was right after I had done a BIAB step mash with no problems.

Is this something a lot of people believe? It mystifies me.

He also said BIAB provides no mash temperature control. Still wondering why he said that. Is this something all-in-one sellers tell people? You just turn on the stove.

He said BIAB doesn't allow recirculation, but I've made fine beers without it, so I don't know what the problem is. I've read that recirculating makes wort clear, but that's totally untrue in my case. All my Braumeister beers started out hazy.

I know someone may chime in and say an all-in-one is a BIAB system. I don't say that. It's needlessly confusing. When you say you do BIAB, nobody thinks you're talking about a machine, and if you ask a machine owner what kind of brewing he does, he will not say, "BIAB."

[ynotbrusum]

Like anything else, there are many ways to do things and even more ways to name it.  I use an Anvil Foundry and use a Brew Bag as my "filter" for the mash (doughing in at around 1.75 -  2 quarts per pound, then I batch sparge after a 60-70 minute mash, occasionally step mashing and rarely decocting.  I hit mid 70's brewhouse efficiency using that approach.  Works for me, regardless of what it might be called. (BIAB, Batch Sparging, combination or other).  Cheers to brewing how you choose to brew.

[redrocker652002]

I am of the belief that step mashing using a propane burner and a kettle with a bag in it is very difficult and I have not tried it yet.  I have printed some recipes that call for it, but still am not comfortable trying it.  The temps, for me, can get really out of control fast and I have overshot my Mash temps in the early runs.  As far as temp control, I have gotten my system figured out to where I can stay within a few degrees of the temp I am looking for.  But, you have to sit and really babysit it.  The all in one setups, to me, would be much easier.  But, in my mind, I am not brewing that way.  The machine is.  Will I get and AIO at some point?  Probably.  But for now, I have a pretty good handle on a single mash using the propane burner and a 10 gallon kettle. 

With that being said, I say do what you feel is right for you.  In this time of constant battles and divides, it is so much easier to just let it go and let people do what they feel is right for them.  No harm, no foul.  OK, off my soap box now. 

[redrocker652002]

Like anything else, there are many ways to do things and even more ways to name it.  I use an Anvil Foundry and use a Brew Bag as my "filter" for the mash (doughing in at around 1.75 -  2 quarts per pound, then I batch sparge after a 60-70 minute mash, occasionally step mashing and rarely decocting.  I hit mid 70's brewhouse efficiency using that approach.  Works for me, regardless of what it might be called. (BIAB, Batch Sparging, combination or other).  Cheers to brewing how you choose to brew.

That last sentence says it all.  Cheers and enjoy the hobby however you want to enjoy it. 

[ynotbrusum]

Yep.  The all in ones can be very hands on and manual in their approach (Anvil Foundry, for example, requires the operator to manipulate the heat for rests, if step mashing) or automated to the extent you choose (most of them now have step mash programming capabilities, may be wifi or Bluetooth controlled, and provide for auto-timed starts).  I still think the brewer is in control to set up the device's operations, doughing in and setting the hop schedule additions, and to me that is brewing.  I brewed on propane for years, settling mostly on using a cooler with Brew Bag and adding boiling water additions for step mashing.  I tried BIAB in a kettle on the propane burner, but after a few holes burnt into the bag (hanging over the kettle lip on the outside), I went back to the cooler mash tun approach.  Once I bought my Anvil Foundry, I settled on BIAB with it, which has never let me down and never burnt any holes in the bag using it. 

Definitely a trial and re-trial kind of thing.

[Clint Yeastwood]

It sounds like gas is the real problem here. I am using an induction range, and I had no problems.

I have a big turkey burner, and it puts out way more heat. I don't think I need that much heat, since my mash temperature changes only take around 6 minutes.

[huckdavidson]

Can you quote and link to the forum post where your being told "BIAB wasn't as good because I couldn't do a step mash" and "BIAB provides no mash temperature control".

Tone down the slander.

Try calling MoreBeer instead of just browsing their website.  They should be able to order an o-ring for you.

[Richard]

I recirculate with BIAB all the time. When I first tried it my bag was too fine a mesh and it caused problems because all the grains got compacted at the bottom and the liquid didn't flow out of the bag well enough. Once I changed to a bag with a coarser weave I have had no problems.

[Clint Yeastwood]

I apologize to everyone else here for attracting angry remarks to this great forum. I didn't have a squabble elsewhere and bring it here to ruin everyone's day. There was no squabble. I don't do that. I'm grateful for forums, and I respect the proprietors' right to good behavior from members like me who pay nothing to use them.

I do disagree with people, politely. Most people handle it well.

Can you quote and link to the forum post where your being told "BIAB wasn't as good because I couldn't do a step mash" and "BIAB provides no mash temperature control".

Tone down the slander.

Try calling MoreBeer instead of just browsing their website.  They should be able to order an o-ring for you.

That is really rude, not to mention the weirdness of chasing me from another website and trying to start a fight and hijack a thread. I was never anything but polite and cordial to you, and I haven't said anything here that was insulting or dishonest. Why ruin the atmosphere of a friendly forum?

On top of all that, what you're implying is not true:

A simple one pot BIAB approach like you've discovered does have the advantage of a quick cleanup however you'll also have to deal with:

Uneven mash bed temperatures
No recirculation
No mash temperature control
No pre-heat (delay timer)
No pump to move the wort
No step mashing

"Slander"? Seriously? That would be over the top even if I had lied about something this microscopically unimportant. I make an honest, polite effort to get some useful brewing information, and I get chased down and accused of tortious behavior.

Slander is actually called "defamation" these days, and back when other terms were popular, they called written defamation "libel." "Slander" was almost always reserved for oral defamation. A defamation plaintiff has to show economic damages. Also, truth, or substantial truth, is an absolute defense. A lot of defamation suits die from motions to dismiss because defendants proved they were truthful.

I'm going with the free-shipping generic O-ring I already ordered instead of hassling myself with Morebeer, waiting for them to get a ring from Germany, and paying their shipping charge. Ebay took a couple of minutes. Done.

If I ran Speidel, I'd just tell people what part to buy locally. I don't know about Germany, and I realize they have a different outlook, but in the US, informing customers they can use generic parts is SOP for many companies. Speidel is doing business in Rome, so it should do as the Romans do. Some poor guy paid them a couple grand for this severely-overpriced machine. My guess is that they don't need to dive for every pfennig.

Imagine, expecting a customer to miss a week or more of brewing so your company can make a Euro and a half and protect the amazing trade secret of using a 60mm x 54mm buna O-ring. It's tone-deaf. It's not like I asked KFC to send a list of the 11 herbs and spices. Everyone knows the company that makes Speidel's pumps buys O-rings off the shelf. They have never made an O-ring or developed a special material.

[Megary]

I take the lid off my pot and slowly stir with a spoon every 10 minutes or so.  BIAB Recirculating 101.   

[Clint Yeastwood]

I take the lid off my pot and slowly stir with a spoon every 10 minutes or so.  BIAB Recirculating 101.   

That's what I did, more or less. Seemed to work, but I figured I should get info from people who know more. My memories of my old days of kettle-on-stove brewing are not that good, but I'm sure I did the same thing then.

[huckdavidson]

I apologize to everyone else here for attracting angry remarks to this great forum. I didn't have a squabble elsewhere and bring it here to ruin everyone's day. There was no squabble. I don't do that. I'm grateful for forums, and I respect the proprietors' right to good behavior from members like me who pay nothing to use them.

I do disagree with people, politely. Most people handle it well.

Can you quote and link to the forum post where your being told "BIAB wasn't as good because I couldn't do a step mash" and "BIAB provides no mash temperature control".

Tone down the slander.

Try calling MoreBeer instead of just browsing their website.  They should be able to order an o-ring for you.

That is really rude, not to mention the weirdness of chasing me from another website and trying to start a fight and hijack a thread. I was never anything but polite and cordial to you, and I haven't said anything here that was insulting or dishonest. Why ruin the atmosphere of a friendly forum?

On top of all that, what you're implying is not true:

A simple one pot BIAB approach like you've discovered does have the advantage of a quick cleanup however you'll also have to deal with:

Uneven mash bed temperatures
No recirculation
No mash temperature control
No pre-heat (delay timer)
No pump to move the wort
No step mashing

"Slander"? Seriously? That would be over the top even if I had lied about something this microscopically unimportant. I make an honest, polite effort to get some useful brewing information, and I get chased down and accused of tortious behavior.

Slander is actually called "defamation" these days, and back when other terms were popular, they called written defamation "libel." "Slander" was almost always reserved for oral defamation. A defamation plaintiff has to show economic damages. Also, truth, or substantial truth, is an absolute defense. A lot of defamation suits die from motions to dismiss because defendants proved they were truthful.

I'm going with the free-shipping generic O-ring I already ordered instead of hassling myself with Morebeer, waiting for them to get a ring from Germany, and paying their shipping charge. Ebay took a couple of minutes. Done.

If I ran Speidel, I'd just tell people what part to buy locally. I don't know about Germany, and I realize they have a different outlook, but in the US, informing customers they can use generic parts is SOP for many companies. Speidel is doing business in Rome, so it should do as the Romans do. Some poor guy paid them a couple grand for this severely-overpriced machine. My guess is that they don't need to dive for every pfennig.

Imagine, expecting a customer to miss a week or more of brewing so your company can make a Euro and a half and protect the amazing trade secret of using a 60mm x 54mm buna O-ring. It's tone-deaf. It's not like I asked KFC to send a list of the 11 herbs and spices. Everyone knows the company that makes Speidel's pumps buys O-rings off the shelf. They have never made an O-ring or developed a special material.

Your statements are exaggerated and do not accurately reflect the intent of the other posts.  Slander in order to drive conversation.  What kind of a person are you?

[redrocker652002]

I take the lid off my pot and slowly stir with a spoon every 10 minutes or so.  BIAB Recirculating 101.   

I do the same thing.  Never really thought it would be recirculating, but now I can add that to my list of accomplishments.  LOL  Thanks for the post, score one for the good guys.  LOL. 

And just a side note to all.  We are all here for the enjoyment of a hobby.  We all do things a bit different and have different ways of getting to the finish line.  Important thing to remember is that we all get there and enjoy it.  In my opinion, there is no need to cause anybody any grief or to get personal.  If you do what you do, enjoy it and enjoy the end result then it is all good.  I for one, enjoy reading different ways and approaches to making beer.  To me, I learn a bit each time I read a post or look at a Youtube video.  Are these folks wrong? NOPE.  They do what they do and enjoy it. Why not just learn a bit, converse respectfully and treat each as you would want to be treated yourself?  OK, off my soap box now   Rant on.  LOL

[Megary]

"A simple one pot BIAB approach like you've discovered does have the advantage of a quick cleanup however you'll also have to deal with:

Uneven mash bed temperatures
No recirculation
No mash temperature control
No pre-heat (delay timer)
No pump to move the wort
No step mashing"

I'm not sure where this quote came from.  But my response to this would be:

Uneven mash bed temperatures - That's completely wrong, because it's very easy to recirculate with a spoon and keep the temperature even enough.

No recirculation - Unless recirculation means something other than keeping a uniform temperature, that's definitely not correct.

No mash temperature control - I have perfect mash temperature control on my gas stove.  Extremely easy to keep the mash within +/- .5 degrees of desired temp for as long as I want.  Can't speak for those using electric stoves.

No pre-heat (delay timer) - Very true.  And waiting to hit mash temperature is arguably my least favorite part of BIAB brewing. Since there's nothing to "set up" and so little equipment used, it can be very boring.  I usually have breakfast.

No pump to move the wort - True, and thank heavens. 

No step mashing - Yes and no.  I can step mash, maybe, but I don't know the rules.  Does the wort have to move from one step to the next in a certain amount of time to be considered a "step".  I can certainly move the mash temperature with my burner, but I'd have to do it carefully and it *may* take me a bit too long to get from say...144° to 156°...to be effective.  Not sure on that though. Honestly, I've never tried step mashing because I'm not convinced it would make a difference.  Again, not sure on that.

[huckdavidson]

"A simple one pot BIAB approach like you've discovered does have the advantage of a quick cleanup however you'll also have to deal with:

Uneven mash bed temperatures
No recirculation
No mash temperature control
No pre-heat (delay timer)
No pump to move the wort
No step mashing"

I'm not sure where this quote came from.  But my response to this would be:

Uneven mash bed temperatures - That's completely wrong, because it's very easy to recirculate with a spoon and keep the temperature even enough.

No recirculation - Unless recirculation means something other than keeping a uniform temperature, that's definitely not correct.

No mash temperature control - I have perfect mash temperature control on my gas stove.  Extremely easy to keep the mash within +/- .5 degrees of desired temp for as long as I want.  Can't speak for those using electric stoves.

No pre-heat (delay timer) - Very true.  And waiting to hit mash temperature is arguably my least favorite part of BIAB brewing. Since there's nothing to "set up" and so little equipment used, it can be very boring.  I usually have breakfast.

No pump to move the wort - True, and thank heavens. 

No step mashing - Yes and no.  I can step mash, maybe, but I don't know the rules.  Does the wort have to move from one step to the next in a certain amount of time to be considered a "step".  I can certainly move the mash temperature with my burner, but I'd have to do it carefully and it *may* take me a bit too long to get from say...144° to 156°...to be effective.  Not sure on that though. Honestly, I've never tried step mashing because I'm not convinced it would make a difference.  Again, not sure on that.

You recirculate with a spoon?  For an entire hour?  You're joking right?

You accurately measure mash bed temperature throughout?  With your twelve temp probes?

Maybe, just maybe, if you stir enough at dough in you have an even mash bed temperature but then you've lost a lot of heat.  Even AIO's with poorly placed temp probes suffer from very uneven mash bed temperatures.

Look at all the hoops the new Brewzilla G4 had to go through to get a semblance of good process control.  Even they had to introduce a mash temp probe and a "heat distribution plate".

AOI's came about because they offered solutions to all of those problems and there's only two maybe three on the market that I'm aware of that have overcome most if not all of the issues in that list.

Single pot BIAB makes beer as do a lot of simplistic processes (cooler batch sparging, etc...) but they don't live up to the process control and ease of use functions of the automated machines.