[neuse]

Quote: "FWIW: I often replace some of the DME (75% fermentable) with sugar (100% fermentable). I also use a higher attenuating yeast (like US-05, and unlike Windsor)."

I don't know why the difference, but I generally get attenuation in the mid 70's to mid 80's when using LME and DME - depends on the specific style and yeast. Yeast is mostly US-05, Nottingham, S-189, BE-256, and Munich Classic Wheat Yeast. So my thought is try it without substituting sugar first to see if it is actually needed, given your particular process. Obviously, ymmv.

[Fire Rooster]

Quote: "FWIW: I often replace some of the DME (75% fermentable) with sugar (100% fermentable). I also use a higher attenuating yeast (like US-05, and unlike Windsor)."

I don't know why the difference, but I generally get attenuation in the mid 70's to mid 80's when using LME and DME - depends on the specific style and yeast. Yeast is mostly US-05, Nottingham, S-189, BE-256, and Munich Classic Wheat Yeast. So my thought is try it without substituting sugar first to see if it is actually needed, given your particular process. Obviously, ymmv.

That was the plan, no sugar, or distilled water. My tap well water I could probably sell as spring water.
Novalager is a high attenuation yeast.  The process and ingredients are good as can be.
There will be no excuses, if I have to make offerings to the DME Gods, I'm out

I already had the next 3 all grain batches planned and ready to go.
This was an out of the blue batch, which will be brewed in a day or so.

Cheers

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Quote: "FWIW: I often replace some of the DME (75% fermentable) with sugar (100% fermentable). I also use a higher attenuating yeast (like US-05, and unlike Windsor)."

I don't know why the difference, but I generally get attenuation in the mid 70's to mid 80's when using LME and DME - depends on the specific style and yeast. Yeast is mostly US-05, Nottingham, S-189, BE-256, and Munich Classic Wheat Yeast. So my thought is try it without substituting sugar first to see if it is actually needed, given your particular process. Obviously, ymmv.

The interesting details are probably recipe specific (brand/style of extract, additional steeped malts, strain of yeast) and process dependent (fermentation temperature?, ...).   With my recent DME (Briess and Muntons) and LME (Williams), I have been estimating fermentibility of the DME/LME at 75% and getting appropriate FG.

eta: apparently there is a very old (1990s?) Zymurgy article that talks about fermentibility of extract.  I've been told those numbers ranged from 50% to 75%.  In the 2020s, there may still be extracts with lower fermentibility.  But my experience with some of the major brands suggests that 75% is a good starting point for estimating.

[Fire Rooster]

All grain to DME conversion tables don't account for brewers brew house efficiency.
I used table found below to calculate OG, and it was pretty darn close, if not exact.

from Briess
Sparkling Amber DME
USAGE INFORMATION

Desired O.G.   Lbs/Gal
     1.020         0.45
     1.030         0.66
     1.040         0.89
     1.050         1.11
     1.060         1.34

[fredthecat]

i tried an all DME batch and 20 min boil.once and i did 2 attempts where all the fementables were breiss DME and amounts of specialty grains because obviously it would be a huuuge time saver which is important for me.

it was not pleasant at all and this was explained in another thread. the specialty grain ones were passable. the issue imho is briess's sodium content in their DME. if you could get williams or something id recommend trying that.

do let me know either way

[Fire Rooster]

i tried an all DME batch and 20 min boil.once and i did 2 attempts where all the fementables were breiss DME and amounts of specialty grains because obviously it would be a huuuge time saver which is important for me.

it was not pleasant at all and this was explained in another thread. the specialty grain ones were passable. the issue imho is briess's sodium content in their DME. if you could get williams or something id recommend trying that.

do let me know either way

I couldn't help myself and had to try an all DME brew.
Keeping an open mind, but being realistic at the same time.
After about 2 weeks before bottling, I'll test taste before doing so.
If good, ok, or so-so it will be bottled, if not it will be dumped.
My pipeline can take a hit and recover.

Cheers

[BrewnWKopperKat]

meanwhile, over at HomeBrewTalk:

Wait - you won the contest with an extract no boil beer!?!

[1] the recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10212177

[2] the ribbon: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10227388

There's more, as the recipe was scaled up and released commercially. 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

if you could get williams or something id recommend trying that.

Williams Amber/Red LME: 

• I had a good first experience with their LMEs  (Pale Ale, American Amber, and Nut Brown).  Ordered on a Sunday in late March, shipped on Monday, arrived the following Monday due to a snow storm in the Rocky Mountains.  All three of the LMEs were of good quality (appropriate color) and made good beers for a 1st attempt with the ingredient.
• Aside: Williams apparently makes both an American Amber LME (which I ordered, but is not listed on their web site today) and an American Red LME (which is listed on their web site today).

Muntons Amber Spray Malt:

• Additional information on Muntions Amber Spray Malt, from an email with Muntons on their Amber DME, can be found here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/i-brewed-an-experimental-recipe-a-few-weeks-ago.703564/page-2#post-10238985 . 
• I have brewed once recently with Muntons Amber and confirmed (to my satisfaction) the recommendation (add some specialty malts) to be good advice. 

Briess Amber DME:

• I find that Briess Amber DME makes a nice session or normal strength American Amber.  No need for steeping malts in this OG range.
• Above about OG 55 (Red IPA and Imperial Red styles), I tend to add sugar and/or Brewers Crystals for 'best' results.
• Sugar adds OG (but no FG). 
• Brewers Crystals add both OG and FG.
• Sugar and Brewers Crystals [probably] have no sodium; so using them effectively "dilutes (in a good way)" the mineral content in the DME.   
• A "short and shoddy" cold steep (30 min in a side pot while the main kettle is heating) can add back some color / flavor.

[Fire Rooster]

meanwhile, over at HomeBrewTalk:

Wait - you won the contest with an extract no boil beer!?!

[1] the recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10212177

[2] the ribbon: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10227388

There's more, as the recipe was scaled up and released commercially.

Thanks.
My thoughts, barely bring to boil, turn off heat, toss in hops along the way as it's naturally cooling down.
In about 2 weeks an early taste will determine where my DME adventures go.

Cheers

[BrewnWKopperKat]

meanwhile, over at HomeBrewTalk:

Wait - you won the contest with an extract no boil beer!?!

[1] the recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10212177

[2] the ribbon: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10227388

There's more, as the recipe was scaled up and released commercially.

Thanks.
My thoughts, barely bring to boil, turn off heat, toss in hops along the way as it's naturally cooling down.
In about 2 weeks an early taste will determine where my DME adventures go.

Cheers

Basic Brewing Radio did something similar with their "hop sampler" series; but they were working with 3/4 gal wort and in 1 gal carboys.  When I tried it, the time from boiling to about 175 was probably in the 10 min range. 

With larger batches, natural cooling to 175 will likely take longer - and 'boil off' more of the hop oils.

[fredthecat]

noboil NEIPA?

lol enjoy exploding bottles or kegs unless you estimate FG and carbonation VERY carefully.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

noboil NEIPA?

lol enjoy exploding bottles or kegs unless you estimate FG and carbonation VERY carefully.

As noted in the topic, with the "no boil" NEIPA process, the wort is pasteurized as part of the process. 

I've done it a number of times over the last 3 or 4 years.  No bombs, no gushers, no worries. 

[Fire Rooster]

meanwhile, over at HomeBrewTalk:

Wait - you won the contest with an extract no boil beer!?!

[1] the recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10212177

[2] the ribbon: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/blasphemy-no-boil-neipa.660389/page-8#post-10227388

There's more, as the recipe was scaled up and released commercially.

Thanks.
My thoughts, barely bring to boil, turn off heat, toss in hops along the way as it's naturally cooling down.
In about 2 weeks an early taste will determine where my DME adventures go.

Cheers

Basic Brewing Radio did something similar with their "hop sampler" series; but they were working with 3/4 gal wort and in 1 gal carboys.  When I tried it, the time from boiling to about 175 was probably in the 10 min range. 

With larger batches, natural cooling to 175 will likely take longer - and 'boil off' more of the hop oils.

quote -"alpha acids isomerize at temperatures above 175 °F"

I had thought of that for calculating IBU.
A SS stock pot with an aluminum encapsulated bottom is used, thick and heavy bottom.
It heats the bottom evenly quote - " Aluminum dissipates heat 15x better than
stainless, spreading it faster and more freely, this reduces hot spots"
Helps prevent scorching, but not sure how long this pot would take to hit 175, which I guess would
need to be known to calculate IBU.  I wouldn't let it cool down all the way, just enough
to get hop utilization, but also cooled enough so when chilled water is added it's within yeast
pitching temps.

Cheers

[denny]

noboil NEIPA?

lol enjoy exploding bottles or kegs unless you estimate FG and carbonation VERY carefully.

As noted in the topic, with the "no boil" NEIPA process, the wort is pasteurized as part of the process. 

I've done it a number of times over the last 3 or 4 years.  No bombs, no gushers, no worries.

It was the classic way to brew in the old days.

[ynotbrusum]

DME LME and steeping grains were my approach until briefly all grain fly sparging…then I found Dennybrew and batch sparging and finally brew in a bag/single vessel.  Evolution of homebrew - it doesn’t mean we have to fully abandon the old ways.  I batch sparge more frequently now than ever.