[Richard]

I add 2 grams/gallon sugar and yeast to my strike water at room temperature the night before a brew. My timer is set to heat the water early the next morning so it will be at strike temperature by the time I finish breakfast. The yeast are killed at a temperature of ~120 F, and the ability to hold dissolved oxygen decreases as the temperature goes up until it is zero at boiling. If you go from 120 to strike temp in a reasonably short time the amount of re-dissolved oxygen should be low. I add my water additions near strike temperature and stir them in gently. Most dissolve better at the high temperature, anyway.

[Megary]

I add 2 grams/gallon sugar and yeast to my strike water at room temperature the night before a brew. My timer is set to heat the water early the next morning so it will be at strike temperature by the time I finish breakfast. The yeast are killed at a temperature of ~120 F, and the ability to hold dissolved oxygen decreases as the temperature goes up until it is zero at boiling. If you go from 120 to strike temp in a reasonably short time the amount of re-dissolved oxygen should be low. I add my water additions near strike temperature and stir them in gently. Most dissolve better at the high temperature, anyway.

Thanks for that.  I may have to give this a try.

Still not sure how to resolve the “mash in” dilemma however.  How to get the grains incorporated without ending O2-wise back at square one…

I always mill my grains into a bowl, set the bag in the kettle, gradually dump the grains into the kettle and whisk away as needed.

If I milled into the bag instead and then lowered the bag with grains into the kettle, that would be like underletting.  Seems like problem solved.  I’m just afraid that I would end up with one huge dough ball!    

[Bilsch]

If you keep your strike temp at or below about 135F, underlet at a slower speed roughly ~3/4 gal a minute and your crush isn't excessively fine, you won't get any dough balls.

[BrewBama]

I mill my grains into a food safe bucket and add my salt additions on top. I add the grain to the bag so the salts are now mixed in towards the bottom and I underlet the mash. If I mash in low ~140°F-ish and gently stir as I’m raising to mash temp I get very few (if any) dough balls. I recirculate during the entire mash so I am hoping this underlet/stirring/recirculating incorporates the salts into the wort.

[MDL]

I use the same 1 gram per gallon of yeast and dextrose added to my strike water at 115F for at least 2 hours before mash in. I monitor the ORP and you can watch it start to drop about 90 minutes in.

I add my grain to the mash tun and any salts/k meta/ascorbic etc on top of the grain. Underlet slowly with minimal stirring for the first rest at 145.
Boil the next charge of water for a step to 160F.

Sparge water gets boiled for 5 minutes to de-aerate. I’m considering dosing about 5 ppm sulfite into the sparge water but haven’t yet.

Sulfite test strips show 0 sulfite once kettle is full and ORP is below 100, often under 60.

Seems I’m keeping most oxygen out of the mash and I do believe the effort is worth it as the final beer quality is noticeably improved.

[jeffy]

If low oxygen strike water is the goal (and I’m not saying it is or isn’t) then I am someone who must be guilty of far too much O2 in the mash.  BIAB on the stove.  I fill my kettle from a faucet above the stove that just splashes away.  After reaching strike temp, I dump my grains into the kettle from a bowl and whisk away like the dickens to break up dough balls.  I stir the mash regularly, every 5-10 minutes with little subtlety.  What it is, what it has been.

But I find this conversation very interesting even if I’m not sure what the end game is.

Yeast and sugar the night before seems beyond easy and having the kettle ready would be time-helpful the next day.  Just crank the burner and Let’s go!  I’m still not sure why though.   

One question:  Do we treat the water with salt/acid along with the yeast/sugar addition, or not until after the O2 is gone.  If the latter, how do you incorporate something like Gypsum, the bugger that doesn’t want to readily dissolve, without whisking or stirring in O2?

I add the salts and acid for the entire batch with sugar and yeast.

[denny]

The sugar and yeast method seems easy enough to try. I have a couple questions....

How much of each to use?

If this something that's good for all styles, or are there some that wouldn't benefit?

If you know you'll have O2 pickup later inthe mash, for instance raising the basket on an all in one, are you negating the initial deareation?

[BrewBama]

From the link I posted above “Strictly speaking from an energy and ease standpoint the default 2g/gal YOS dosing is pretty hard to beat. Dose and wait 30 minutes (to 4 days!) and you are set. If you want to accelerate 2g/gal dosing, heat the kettle a bit.

If you want to cut back on yeast and sugar amount in the water, 1g/gal is a great alternative. You can wait a little longer (>1hr), or slightly heat the kettle to 35-40c (90-115F) and have very fast (<30 minute) results.”

I imagine lifting a basket/bag is not ideal. That’s why they use scavengers to address those issues.

Bamforth often cites a study that indicates some people prefer stale beer over fresh. Not sure if that’s style dependent or not.

[denny]

From the link I posted above “Strictly speaking from an energy and ease standpoint the default 2g/gal YOS dosing is pretty hard to beat. Dose and wait 30 minutes (to 4 days!) and you are set. If you want to accelerate 2g/gal dosing, heat the kettle a bit.

If you want to cut back on yeast and sugar amount in the water, 1g/gal is a great alternative. You can wait a little longer (>1hr), or slightly heat the kettle to 35-40c (90-115F) and have very fast (<30 minute) results.”

I imagine lifting a basket/bag is not ideal. That’s why they use scavengers to address those issues.

Bamforth often cites a study that indicates some people prefer stale beer over fresh. Not sure if that’s style dependent or not.

According to what I've recall Jeff Rankert say, he's found it to work well for German styles and not so much for British.

So, I'm gonna be lifting a grain basket, then sparging. It seems like those would negate the initial effort. Anybody deaerate the water, but then sparge in a AIO?

[hopfenundmalz]

From the link I posted above “Strictly speaking from an energy and ease standpoint the default 2g/gal YOS dosing is pretty hard to beat. Dose and wait 30 minutes (to 4 days!) and you are set. If you want to accelerate 2g/gal dosing, heat the kettle a bit.

If you want to cut back on yeast and sugar amount in the water, 1g/gal is a great alternative. You can wait a little longer (>1hr), or slightly heat the kettle to 35-40c (90-115F) and have very fast (<30 minute) results.”

I imagine lifting a basket/bag is not ideal. That’s why they use scavengers to address those issues.

Bamforth often cites a study that indicates some people prefer stale beer over fresh. Not sure if that’s style dependent or not.

According to what I've recall Jeff Rankert say, he's found it to work well for German styles and not so much for British.

So, I'm gonna be lifting a grain basket, then sparging. It seems like those would negate the initial effort. Anybody deaerate the water, but then sparge in a AIO?

The one British ale I did LODO on came out with a malt character more like a German Alt. Not bad, but not the beer I was expecting. Maybe I should try again?

Last fall I toured Theakstons in Masham. That brewery is all original Victorian equipment except for electric motors that replaced the steam engine. Hot side aeration everywhere. They are a real ale brewery, most everything goes out in casks. Old Peculier is taken off site for the bottling process. Old Peculier on cask in Yorkshire pubs was a great beer. In bottles in the US, not so good.

British beer in the US is not so good. It might have longer shelf life in bottles if they kept O2 out, but the fresh stuff in Casks might taste different.

Pale ale malt has had the LOX denatured at the higher kilning temperatures, so some of the hot side problems aren't as noticable. Beware a study that uses Maris Otter to compare LODO vs non LODO beers.

[hopfenundmalz]

Some beers need some O2. Cask ale once tapped will take on a depth of flavor over a few days, then goes off. Lambo a need some micro oxygenation for the Brett to work.

Brew to style with the techniques used for that style.

[BrewBama]

…

Brew to style with the techniques used for that style.

I believe this.

[HopDen]

Yeast/sugar seems to be straight forward and easy enough but will it affect the mash pH? I will assume if it does it would be negligible or easily corrected with acid or base.

3 kettle HERMS with recirculation pumps running for 60 minutes seems to me that would reintroduce O2 into the mash negating the deaeration.

[lupulus]

From the link I posted above “Strictly speaking from an energy and ease standpoint the default 2g/gal YOS dosing is pretty hard to beat. Dose and wait 30 minutes (to 4 days!) and you are set. If you want to accelerate 2g/gal dosing, heat the kettle a bit.

If you want to cut back on yeast and sugar amount in the water, 1g/gal is a great alternative. You can wait a little longer (>1hr), or slightly heat the kettle to 35-40c (90-115F) and have very fast (<30 minute) results.”

I imagine lifting a basket/bag is not ideal. That’s why they use scavengers to address those issues.

Bamforth often cites a study that indicates some people prefer stale beer over fresh. Not sure if that’s style dependent or not.

According to what I've recall Jeff Rankert say, he's found it to work well for German styles and not so much for British.

So, I'm gonna be lifting a grain basket, then sparging. It seems like those would negate the initial effort. Anybody deaerate the water, but then sparge in a AIO?

The one British ale I did LODO on came out with a malt character more like a German Alt. Not bad, but not the beer I was expecting. Maybe I should try again?

Last fall I toured Theakstons in Masham. That brewery is all original Victorian equipment except for electric motors that replaced the steam engine. Hot side aeration everywhere. They are a real ale brewery, most everything goes out in casks. Old Peculier is taken off site for the bottling process. Old Peculier on cask in Yorkshire pubs was a great beer. In bottles in the US, not so good.

British beer in the US is not so good. It might have longer shelf life in bottles if they kept O2 out, but the fresh stuff in Casks might taste different.

Pale ale malt has had the LOX denatured at the higher kilning temperatures, so some of the hot side problems aren't as noticable. Beware a study that uses Maris Otter to compare LODO vs non LODO beers.

Isn't Alt non-LODO similar to British beers?

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)

[narcout]

So, I'm gonna be lifting a grain basket, then sparging. It seems like those would negate the initial effort. Anybody deaerate the water, but then sparge in a AIO?

You can use antioxidants in the mash to help negate the points of oxygen ingress that are difficult or impossible to avoid.  That said, if you are going to give low oxygen brewing a shot, then you will will want to employ techniques to minimize oxygen exposure such as utilizing a mash cap, not sparging, etc.