[Richard]

That is just not realistic for the vast majority of homebrewers, including me.

I don't know.  If you could piece one together for like $400-$500 (just a total guess on my part), it wouldn't be so out of line with other gear on the market that people are buying these days (conical fermentors, glycol chillers, all in one electric systems, etc.).  If I ever decide to get serious about low oxygen brewing again, I'd be interested in purchasing one.

There are many DO meters on the market in that price range and lower, but they don't have the sensitivity and resolution needed for this application (they are mostly targeting aquariums, etc). I saw one for $750 that was close, but marginal. And those are standalone meters for testing samples, not the inline, real-time monitors that Bilsch was talking about. I have no idea how much they cost.

[Bilsch]

I don't know.  If you could piece one together for like $400-$500 (just a total guess on my part), it wouldn't be so out of line with other gear on the market that people are buying these days (conical fermentors, glycol chillers, all in one electric systems, etc.).  If I ever decide to get serious about low oxygen brewing again, I'd be interested in purchasing one.

Not long ago you could pick up a transmitter and probe used for a couple hundred. Though it's a somewhat steep learning curve to understand how they operate if you aren't familiar with instrumentation of this type.

[BrewBama]

…  If I ever decide to get serious about low oxygen brewing again, I'd be interested in purchasing one.

What made you become less serious about low oxygen brewing than you may have been in the past?

[MDL]

I would try using your ORP meter. I disagree with Bilsch on its usefulness. You can get a good understanding of your process oxygen ingress and scavenging effects if you take regular ORP measurements throughout brewday. It helped me greatly improve the quality of my beer.

Suit yourself but I just want to reiterate this has been well explored and dismissed as a confusing inaccurate waste of time.

Good to know the ORP measurements have been determined to be misleading. I based my initial use on a paper going back a couple years on ORP and it’s relevance to brewing which I believe I found on the Modern Brewhouse site somewhere.

What I have noticed in my own use of an ORP meter is there is a noticeable trend to the negative during the yeast deoxygenating of strike water and a further stabilizing trend in the negative once the sulfites are introduced. If it’s all anecdotal without having DO readings available then at least it led to an improvement in the quality and stability of my beers.

[Richard]

This is seriously messing with my New Year's resolution to simplify my brewing process!

[fredthecat]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

[denny]

This is seriously messing with my New Year's resolution to simplify my brewing process!

Not me. Brew your own way.

[denny]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

[Richard]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

A point that is often overlooked is that the LODO brewers are focusing entirely on light lagers, where certain malt flavors are important. They acknowledge that their approach to the hot side is not important, or even counterproductive, to some other styles. I am brewing a stout next, which has lots of flavor from the dark and roasted malt, but it isn't the kind of malt flavor that reducing HSA is designed to preserve.

[BrewBama]

Correct me if I am incorrect: As I read the LowO2 stuff, I find that the processes and/or additives (I am not sure which) changes how the malt flavors present in the resulting light lager. There’s a special blend base malt recommendation to control the unexpected. So if you get weird flavors check into that.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

A point that is often overlooked is that the LODO brewers are focusing entirely on light lagers, [...]

Good to know, because I'm starting to see that some of the techniques/ingredients (e.g. Brewtan-B) are improving the ales that I brew.  Over the next couple of brew days, I will continue adding items (YOS, mash capping, etc) to my ales.  Whether or not one can talk about these techniques (outside of the LODO 'banner') remains to be seen.  Baby steps....

[narcout]

…  If I ever decide to get serious about low oxygen brewing again, I'd be interested in purchasing one.

What made you become less serious about low oxygen brewing than you may have been in the past?

Nothing in particular, really.  It's mostly that I've been homebrewing for 19 years now, and my interest level has waned.  I have retained some of the practices I learned though (spunding, for example).

[Richard]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

A point that is often overlooked is that the LODO brewers are focusing entirely on light lagers, [...]

Good to know, because I'm starting to see that some of the techniques/ingredients (e.g. Brewtan-B) are improving the ales that I brew.  Over the next couple of brew days, I will continue adding items (YOS, mash capping, etc) to my ales.  Whether or not one can talk about these techniques (outside of the LODO 'banner') remains to be seen.  Baby steps....

Reducing HSA can definitely benefit some ales in addition to pale lagers. I generally take the steps you list even for ales except for stouts and other British ales. I would probably also skip for Belgians if I ever brewed them.

Perhaps we can come up with a new term that doesn't have all the baggage of "LODO". Perhaps something like Pragmatic Reduction of Oxygen in the Mash (PROM). Then we need another term for the cold side, something like Keeping Oxygen Out After Fermentation Finishes (KOOAFF, pronounced "quaff").

[BrewnWKopperKat]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

A point that is often overlooked is that the LODO brewers are focusing entirely on light lagers, [...]

Good to know, because I'm starting to see that some of the techniques/ingredients (e.g. Brewtan-B) are improving the ales that I brew.  Over the next couple of brew days, I will continue adding items (YOS, mash capping, etc) to my ales.  Whether or not one can talk about these techniques (outside of the LODO 'banner') remains to be seen.  Baby steps....

Reducing HSA can definitely benefit some ales in addition to pale lagers. I generally take the steps you list even for ales except for stouts and other British ales. I would probably also skip for Belgians if I ever brewed them.

Perhaps we can come up with a new term that doesn't have all the baggage of "LODO". Perhaps something like Pragmatic Reduction of Oxygen in the Mash (PROM). Then we need another term for the cold side, something like Keeping Oxygen Out After Fermentation Finishes (KOOAFF, pronounced "quaff").

Thanks for the insights (lighter ales vs darker ales)!

[erockrph]

i just had a crazy thought - aggressively using hot side aeration to reduce malt character in order to make a beer much more winey(?) and focus solely on yeast produced compounds for flavouring. i was thinking of the flavour of rodenbach just now (im drinking hot chocolate)

there is the kneejerk reaction to say "we need more malt flavour", but if done well yeah...

Massive misinterpretation

A point that is often overlooked is that the LODO brewers are focusing entirely on light lagers, [...]

Good to know, because I'm starting to see that some of the techniques/ingredients (e.g. Brewtan-B) are improving the ales that I brew.  Over the next couple of brew days, I will continue adding items (YOS, mash capping, etc) to my ales.  Whether or not one can talk about these techniques (outside of the LODO 'banner') remains to be seen.  Baby steps....

Reducing HSA can definitely benefit some ales in addition to pale lagers. I generally take the steps you list even for ales except for stouts and other British ales. I would probably also skip for Belgians if I ever brewed them.

Perhaps we can come up with a new term that doesn't have all the baggage of "LODO". Perhaps something like Pragmatic Reduction of Oxygen in the Mash (PROM). Then we need another term for the cold side, something like Keeping Oxygen Out After Fermentation Finishes (KOOAFF, pronounced "quaff").

Oxygen in brewing is a way bigger factor than just what's involved in HSA/LODO concepts. Oxygen/oxidation management is a factor at just about every step of the brewing process. It's another lever to pull, and it's up to the brewer to determine where and how to include this in their process for a particular beer, and where not to. Regardless of what you think of the personalities involved in the original LODO discussion, "Oxygen" and "Oxidation" shouldn't be 4-letter words in the homebrewing community.