[Richard]

... The amount will be determined empirically and depends primarily on your individual system and essentially how 'leaky' it is. Start high and work your way backward until you find your systems dose.

How exactly do you measure this to determine your proper dosage without an expensive DO meter?  The cheap method I can think of is to use sulfite strips to see how much sulfite remains at the end and reduce the dosage until you get zero? Is that accurate enough?

I initially used an ORP meter to help dial in my sulfite addition. You will see a negative ORP when you are in a reduction state. I%u2019m now using about 25 ppm of potassium meta with ascorbic acid and brewtan B in the mash with yeast deoxygenated strike water and preboiled sparge water.

That sounds like an economical solution. My pH meter has an ORP probe available, but I am not a chemist and had no idea what ORP is or what use it would be to me. I have been guessing, like BrewBama, but would like to have a real measurement to guide me.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I use .3 grams of OxBlox per gal strike liquor. Without a meter or strips, I didn’t know where to start so I use the retailer’s recommendation.

I took a similar approach with rates for
- Brewtan-B (0.1 g per gal in mash and boil /1/) and for
- Yeast Oxygen Scavenging (1.0 g per gal yeast & sugar (+ time and temperature considerations) /2/)
based on information from /1/ & /2/. 

The packaging for the Brewtan-B and OxBlox that I have also includes suggested rates.

Mineral adjustments are similar, most beer home brewers don't a technique for measuring mineral content during the process - so one picks a reasonable starting point and starts.

----------------------------------------
/1/ https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/brewtan-b-dosing/
/2/ https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/deoxygenation-revisited/

[Bilsch]

... The amount will be determined empirically and depends primarily on your individual system and essentially how 'leaky' it is. Start high and work your way backward until you find your systems dose.

How exactly do you measure this to determine your proper dosage without an expensive DO meter?  The cheap method I can think of is to use sulfite strips to see how much sulfite remains at the end and reduce the dosage until you get zero? Is that accurate enough?

I initially used an ORP meter to help dial in my sulfite addition. You will see a negative ORP when you are in a reduction state. I’m now using about 25 ppm of potassium meta with ascorbic acid and brewtan B in the mash with yeast deoxygenated strike water and preboiled sparge water.

Yes thats the trick of it. Since the mash is a dynamic and quickly changing environment even a DO meter can only give you an idea of the trends. Usually by the time some dissolved oxygen shows up it's already being swept up by the antioxidants in your wort. Recording and charting the values is where it becomes truly useful. DO probes in the mash also help spot leaks and give you accurately what your strike DO is. Going full real time in-process DO measurement is the standard that a lot of folks in our camp have adopted. Others have simply worked it out empirically by taste and process which also works if one understands the chemistry of the mash.

ORP meters are not useful because they only kind of tell you what might have happened previously and not what is happening. No one in the Lowox group uses ORP in the mash. Testing for residual sulfites is a better way then ORP yet not as good as the above mentioned instrumentation.

[Richard]

...Going full real time in-process DO measurement is the standard that a lot of folks in our camp have adopted...

That is just not realistic for the vast majority of homebrewers, including me. I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on spot measurements that can help me dial in my settings, but this goes beyond what I consider to be reasonable. If an ORP meter and/or sulfite test can tell me what already happened that is good enough for me to make a correction for the next batch.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

...Going full real time in-process DO measurement is the standard that a lot of folks in our camp have adopted...

That is just not realistic for the vast majority of homebrewers, including me. I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on spot measurements that can help me dial in my settings, but this goes beyond what I consider to be reasonable. If an ORP meter and/or sulfite test can tell me what already happened that is good enough for me to make a correction for the next batch.

Some people run professional quality breweries at home.

Some people brew beer at home as a hobby.

As a hobbiest, early results of doing this:

BIAB (let it drip, no sparge, no squeeze)
- Brewtan-B (0.1 g per gal in mash and boil /1/)
- Yeast Oxygen Scavenging (1.0 g per gal yeast & sugar (+ time and temperature considerations) /2/)
- maybe a MacGyver'ed mash cap (single use aluminum pie tins or roasting pans are bendable)
- bottle with fresh yeast at 75F for the first 3 to 7 days to carbonate quickly plus conditioning time

suggest it's worth trying it again.  Maybe it's repeatable.

And there might be a similar set of techniques for "extract" brewers.  "Time will tell".
 
----------------------------------------
/1/ https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/brewtan-b-dosing/
/2/ https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/deoxygenation-revisited/

[Megary]

Some people run professional quality breweries at home.

Some people brew beer at home as a hobby.

And some hobbyists brew professional quality beer.
 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Some people run professional quality breweries at home.

Some people brew beer at home as a hobby.

And some hobbyists brew professional quality beer.
 

eta: and hopefully more of them will share their approach in 2024.

[fredthecat]

it might already be here but anyone have an answer re: pH drop from using wine yeast+ sugar at ~5g/5g per 5 gallons for oxygen scavenging?

[BrewBama]

I just use grocery store bread yeast.

[Richard]

I just use grocery store bread yeast.

I do, too, but I have a warning about it. I bought a large package and was keeping it in the refrigerator, using it only for YOS. It took me a couple of years to go through the package. I was having fermentations without any krausen and began systematically checking variables. It turns out that my yeast had gone bad and was somehow affecting krausen production. I verified that the yeast was no good by trying to make bread with it, and the dough didn't rise more than a tiny bit. Who knows what may have gone wrong and what the yeast were doing. They are complicated living organisms, unlike most of the simple chemicals we use to treat our water.

In response to the question about pH, see this: https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/deoxygenation-revisited/
There is a small effect.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I just use grocery store bread yeast.

[...]

In response to the question about pH, see this: https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/deoxygenation-revisited/
There is a small effect.

For the "tl;dr", start with the "Final conclusion" section, then go back to the detailed sections (as desired).

[MDL]

...Going full real time in-process DO measurement is the standard that a lot of folks in our camp have adopted...

That is just not realistic for the vast majority of homebrewers, including me. I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on spot measurements that can help me dial in my settings, but this goes beyond what I consider to be reasonable. If an ORP meter and/or sulfite test can tell me what already happened that wet is good enough for me to make a correction for the next batch.

I would try using your ORP meter. I disagree with Bilsch on its usefulness. You can get a good understanding of your process oxygen ingress and scavenging effects if you take regular ORP measurements throughout brewday. It helped me greatly improve the quality of my beer.

[Bilsch]

I would try using your ORP meter. I disagree with Bilsch on its usefulness. You can get a good understanding of your process oxygen ingress and scavenging effects if you take regular ORP measurements throughout brewday. It helped me greatly improve the quality of my beer.

Suit yourself but I just want to reiterate this has been well explored and dismissed as a confusing inaccurate waste of time.

[narcout]

That is just not realistic for the vast majority of homebrewers, including me.

I don't know.  If you could piece one together for like $400-$500 (just a total guess on my part), it wouldn't be so out of line with other gear on the market that people are buying these days (conical fermentors, glycol chillers, all in one electric systems, etc.).  If I ever decide to get serious about low oxygen brewing again, I'd be interested in purchasing one.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I just use grocery store bread yeast.

I do, too, but I have a warning about it. I bought a large package and was keeping it in the refrigerator, using it only for YOS. It took me a couple of years to go through the package. I was having fermentations without any krausen and began systematically checking variables. It turns out that my yeast had gone bad and was somehow affecting krausen production. I verified that the yeast was no good by trying to make bread with it, and the dough didn't rise more than a tiny bit. Who knows what may have gone wrong and what the yeast were doing. They are complicated living organisms, unlike most of the simple chemicals we use to treat our water.

[...]

Thanks for sharing this. 

I bought a "big box store" amount of bread yeast and repackaged most of it in an attempt to store it well.  At the 1st grocery store I checked, bread yeast was declared to be a seasonal item  , so rather than "run over town" to find a package, I spent a couple of extra dollars and over bought.  Over time, I'll probably find someone that has the 'single use' packages in a convenient 6 pack or 12 pack.