[majorvices]

My comments were mostly tongue in cheek and not intended to stir up any actual debate. So there's that. On a deeper level 'novelty beers" are, in my experience, damaging the craft beer industry. People are more interested in beers that taste like dessert or "fantasy flavors" than they are in beers that taste like beer. It is also killing classic styles -- Belgians and Saisons for instance. If it isn't fruited, chocolated, candied, or something out of the normal it gets passed over. A "strawberry cheesecake IPA" will outsell a perfectly brewed English cask ale on a beer engine simply because of the novelty. The cask is the better beer but since it doesn't;t get consumed in 2 or 3 days the majority of it gets dumped. This happens all the time.

I definitely have strong feelings about this. Doesn't mean a brewer shouldn't sell creative ideas or make wild-ass beers. It just means that I feel the public's taste is changing ... and not for the better. Seltzer's, for instance. People expect flavors that they wouldn't even encounter in nature or beers that taste like something you would get at Starbucks. And don't get me started on Starbucks. I like real coffee ...

[denny]

My question: why do people make peanut butter beers.

Because someone wants to buy it.

Hahahaha ... thew actual correct answer.

Seriously, I'm just messing around. everyone should drink what they want to drink. I don't care for novelty beers, personally. They are great for about 2 oz but I don't care for more than that. But that's just me. I don't expect everyone to have pristine taste. 

I know this is too late for the podcast and also really a side convo, but I actually spent a long time today pondering the concept of a "novelty beer" while running errands, some related to my first brew in several months and the maiden voyage of the hoist assembly for my Mash and Brew. (Time off -- that's a novelty!)

It's unclear to me when any homebrew ingredient is a novelty. I don't need someone to explain the style guidelines to me--I just read the new edition. I just think most homebrew is a novelty to begin with, whether we're dialing in a clone SMASH or throwing in half the pantry into a one-off. Peanut butter is not that strange an adjunct to begin with, given that like oatmeal it is another common pantry item (even if in this case it's being emulated with powder or flavoring). Peanut butter is also a natural complement to malty and/or roasty beers. I've had peanut butter beers that were, to my taste, absolutely delicious, and fully messaged "beer" to me. Not sure what I'm saying here, but IMO the world of homebrew benefits from an expansive interpretation.

+1. The correct answer. It’s really what “craft beer” is all about.  And everyone knows it, whether they are willing to admit it or not.

Heck, If I wanted to just drink German lagers all the time, I’d just go right to the source and buy lagers from Germany. I don’t need a “craft” brewery for that.

Your idea of what a craft brewery is is far different than mine.

[Megary]

Oh you got a debate whether you wanted one or not!   

I certainly appreciate your comments on this, especially considering you are coming from the inside.  And for the record, I’m not trying to be confrontational, and I agree with a lot of what you said…just not all of it.

You say people are more interested in drinking novelty beers than beers that taste like beer.  Why do you think that is?  I really have no idea, so I’m sincerely asking.  Do they just not know any better?  Is it simply because they exist?  Do these beers give the average Beer Drinker something they lack from “beer that tastes like beer” (this “beer that tastes like beer” is a concept I have a hard time with, but let’s leave that aside”).  Maybe, if they are making a special night out with friends, they would just like to try something different instead of drinking same old, same old.  Maybe, if they are driving and only want one or two, they are going to opt for something they haven’t had before.

Hey, I’m with you.  I would take a perfectly brewed English Cask Ale over just about anything.  But I would also take a perfectly brewed novelty beer over a ho-hum cask ale just as easily.  But I don’t get to decide what someone else would prefer or what someone else thinks is a perfectly brewed beer.  That’s their decision.

Maybe novelty beers aren’t damaging the craft beer industry, maybe they are keeping it afloat in some backhanded way.  It’s possible that there are just so many substandard craft brewers out there that their flaws are easily exposed when they try and do something “classic”.  If I remember correctly, you are trying to save one of those brewers.  Novelty beers would have been a great place to hide behind for that last guy, what with all those extra flavors.   

In the end, when I go to a craft brewery I’m going to try something old, something new, something that interests me.  But I’ll return to the beers that I think are best, by MY definition of best and not the brewers, or the guidelines, or the beer drinking cognoscenti.  I’ll forget the others.

Cheers!

[Megary]

My question: why do people make peanut butter beers.

Because someone wants to buy it.

Hahahaha ... thew actual correct answer.

Seriously, I'm just messing around. everyone should drink what they want to drink. I don't care for novelty beers, personally. They are great for about 2 oz but I don't care for more than that. But that's just me. I don't expect everyone to have pristine taste. 

I know this is too late for the podcast and also really a side convo, but I actually spent a long time today pondering the concept of a "novelty beer" while running errands, some related to my first brew in several months and the maiden voyage of the hoist assembly for my Mash and Brew. (Time off -- that's a novelty!)

It's unclear to me when any homebrew ingredient is a novelty. I don't need someone to explain the style guidelines to me--I just read the new edition. I just think most homebrew is a novelty to begin with, whether we're dialing in a clone SMASH or throwing in half the pantry into a one-off. Peanut butter is not that strange an adjunct to begin with, given that like oatmeal it is another common pantry item (even if in this case it's being emulated with powder or flavoring). Peanut butter is also a natural complement to malty and/or roasty beers. I've had peanut butter beers that were, to my taste, absolutely delicious, and fully messaged "beer" to me. Not sure what I'm saying here, but IMO the world of homebrew benefits from an expansive interpretation.

+1. The correct answer. It’s really what “craft beer” is all about.  And everyone knows it, whether they are willing to admit it or not.

Heck, If I wanted to just drink German lagers all the time, I’d just go right to the source and buy lagers from Germany. I don’t need a “craft” brewery for that.

Your idea of what a craft brewery is is far different than mine.

What is your definition of a craft brewery? 

Here’s mine:

Craft brewers are small brewers.
The hallmark of craft beer and craft brewers is innovation. Craft brewers interpret historic styles with unique twists and develop new styles that have no precedent.
Craft beer is generally made with traditional ingredients like malted barley; interesting and sometimes non-traditional ingredients are often added for distinctiveness.
Craft brewers tend to be very involved in their communities through philanthropy, product donations, volunteerism and sponsorship of events.
Craft brewers have distinctive, individualistic approaches to connecting with their customers.
Craft brewers maintain integrity by what they brew and their general independence, free from a substantial interest by a non-craft brewer.

[majorvices]

Megary -- i definitely don't think it is confrontational and I actually see your point and I think that you are exactly right in the way you feel. I just feel I am right as well. And it might have something to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s and natural compelled to be conservative about somethings (<-- this is not intended to imply politics).

Personally, from a homebrew standpoint, I can't drink a pint of peanut butter beer, let alone a 5 gallon keg of it. I could see maybe brewing a 1 gallon batch for the ... lack of better words ... novelty of it.

I have brewed a lot of different beers over the last 2 years (I've been brewing commercially for 11 years now). I have come around to brewing a lot of Hazy IPAs even though they aren't my favorite. I brewed a Blackberry Jam Hazy IPA that got great reviews (and probably would have gone well with a peanut butter beer lol). I've even brewed seltzers!

i'm primed to do even more this upcoming year. But I feel like my job, as a craft brewer, is to educated people on beer and beer styles. It used to be easy to do this when offering up "gateway beers' like blonde or Kölsch, then moving them up to more interesting styles. Now you better have a novelty beer that the kids want or your pub will look like a retirement village.

Another gripe I have is that my brewing philosophy has always been that I want to brew a beer so good that the you finish the glass you want another one of that beer you just drank. I don't feel like most novelty beers are able to do that. In fact, a lot of them are one and done.

[ynotbrusum]

There is a local craft brewer near me that has two brewers - both are Siebel and German trained.  They focus on traditional lagers, British Bitters, a few Saison styles and an IPA or two.  They sell ciders from a local cidery and a small selection of mass-produced seltzers.  I am so pleased with their approach, as I typically have a cask ale and a couple low ABV lagers when I visit - occasionally taking a small pour of a specialty offering.  They epitomize craft brewing to me and their traditional lagers are appearing in better beer bars in the region.

Cheers!

[majorvices]

That's the kind of pub i want to drink in. I'll also add if you want to see if a brewery is any good try their blonde or Kolsch or whatever light beer they have ... not their novelty beer.

[kgs]

My comments were mostly tongue in cheek and not intended to stir up any actual debate. So there's that. On a deeper level 'novelty beers" are, in my experience, damaging the craft beer industry. People are more interested in beers that taste like dessert or "fantasy flavors" than they are in beers that taste like beer. It is also killing classic styles -- Belgians and Saisons for instance. If it isn't fruited, chocolated, candied, or something out of the normal it gets passed over. A "strawberry cheesecake IPA" will outsell a perfectly brewed English cask ale on a beer engine simply because of the novelty. The cask is the better beer but since it doesn't;t get consumed in 2 or 3 days the majority of it gets dumped. This happens all the time. ...

My intention is not to stir up debate, either, just responding to a thread that seemed to be singling out an adjunct that I felt worth advocating for (given that this is a forum for an association of homebrewers, who often care about such things).

Is there actual evidence that extreme examples of fruit-flavored beers are the downfall of Belgians, Saisons, and cask beer? Decades ago, Belgian and Saison beers were scarce to be found in this country. Now I can think of four brewpubs within two miles of me that usually have both styles. As for cask ales, they are wonderful, but in this era, by any definition a novelty -- and again the fact we can find them anywhere at all (none in my area, sadly) speaks to the changes for the better.  When I did live near a brewery that sold cask ale, you had to get there pretty fast to not find it sold out. Similarly, our local vaguely-British pub carries La Chouffe but again, if I wait til Sunday I will find myself drinking something else (though I can usually find a Belgian golden on tap at another brewery nearby).

And again, from the measurement of what is "out of the normal," peanut butter feels within the normal zone, while strawberry cheesecake feels like an extreme example--but that's strictly personal. Per a quick Google search, there are definitely examples of strawberry cheesecake beer out there, but I'm guessing these microbrewery examples aren't having a huge impact on the industry.

[kgs]

That's the kind of pub i want to drink in. I'll also add if you want to see if a brewery is any good try their blonde or Kolsch or whatever light beer they have ... not their novelty beer.

I feel that way about most lagers and about Saison and Belgian Golden Strong -- they make good indexes for a brewery. So many times I ask for a taste of a Belgian Golden Strong and don't follow up with a glass because it's too malty or sweet (or heaven forfend, too hoppy). And for the record, you couldn't make me taste a peanut butter flavored Belgian Golden Strong!

[Megary]

Megary -- i definitely don't think it is confrontational and I actually see your point and I think that you are exactly right in the way you feel. I just feel I am right as well. And it might have something to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s and natural compelled to be conservative about somethings (<-- this is not intended to imply politics).

Personally, from a homebrew standpoint, I can't drink a pint of peanut butter beer, let alone a 5 gallon keg of it. I could see maybe brewing a 1 gallon batch for the ... lack of better words ... novelty of it.

I have brewed a lot of different beers over the last 2 years (I've been brewing commercially for 11 years now). I have come around to brewing a lot of Hazy IPAs even though they aren't my favorite. I brewed a Blackberry Jam Hazy IPA that got great reviews (and probably would have gone well with a peanut butter beer lol). I've even brewed seltzers!

i'm primed to do even more this upcoming year. But I feel like my job, as a craft brewer, is to educated people on beer and beer styles. It used to be easy to do this when offering up "gateway beers' like blonde or Kölsch, then moving them up to more interesting styles. Now you better have a novelty beer that the kids want or your pub will look like a retirement village.

Another gripe I have is that my brewing philosophy has always been that I want to brew a beer so good that the you finish the glass you want another one of that beer you just drank. I don't feel like most novelty beers are able to do that. In fact, a lot of them are one and done.

Fair enough.

For the record, I will not be brewing a keg of Peanut Butter Porter either. But I can definitely make it through a pint of a good one, and they do exist.  I guess that’s part of my point…when I visit a Craft Brewery, since I’m not there to get drunk on Cask Ale, I’m more likely to try something out of the ordinary.  Now if that Craft Brewery happened to move a short walk down the street, well… I reserve the right to change my mind.
And I’m in my 50’s as well, and naturally compelled to pretend I’m not.   

[fredthecat]

Another gripe I have is that my brewing philosophy has always been that I want to brew a beer so good that the you finish the glass you want another one of that beer you just drank. I don't feel like most novelty beers are able to do that. In fact, a lot of them are one and done.

i think this is the key thing. and while it does sort of fly in the face of the premise of "novelty beer", but a "novelty beer" can be so well polished and tweaked over a lot of R&D and brewing sessions it can be a beer you want to drink again, this rarely occurs. i dont drink novelty beers after bad experiences with them, but an example of novelty beers that i find to be well tweaked are the gruit ales by williams brothers in scotland like fraoch ale. this is something they did not just throw out the door, but actually made a flagship product using an unusual recipe.

its totally possible to spend a lot of time really working on a recipe that has an unusual ingredient, but why bother when the vast majority of people now look at the wacky picture on the tap or can and see a wacky name like "maple doughnut stout made with REAL DOUGHNUTS" and get one. "how was it?" "ehh it was okay, it got me drunk"

this kind of thing happens in all creative industries, thats why we have marvel movies and mainstream pop/rap music. its about selling.

[narvin]

My interpretation is very simple: novelty beer is a subset of flavored beer.  Beer by definition is malt, hops, yeast and water.  Anything else is flavored beer.  Flavors that aren't traditional (fresh fruit, for example) are novel.

That isn't necessarily a value judgement, but novel can also be a fad if its sole value is that it is novel (i.e. the beer sucks) and no one wants to have it again.  Peanut butter might have more staying power than some of the other things people are doing.

[tommymorris]

I recently saw a Peanut Butter Porter for sale at a brewery in Colorado. I was about to try it but then I saw the ABV was 9.6%.

I’m over 50, too and as such, I have as much problem with beers over 6-7% ABV as I do with novelty beers. I hate when half the taps at a pub are high alcohol.  I understand some styles are high ABV, but geez they don’t all have to be.

I think American brewers in general have a tendency take a style and increase the ABV, increase the IBUs, increase hoppiness, and increase the roastiness. Bigger and bolder. These beers seem marketed to the same crowd that wants novelty beers. If a beer’s name includes Imperial or double, I don’t buy it.

[Megary]

While I’m able, my intention is to (in moderation) drink and brew beer that I enjoy: classic, novelty, or otherwise.  I also intend not to pass judgment on that which others seem to enjoy.  Because what do I know?
That is somewhat selfish of course, because unlike majorvices, I don’t have any skin in the game.  For a Craft Brewer, it can’t be easy.

[brewthru]

While I enjoy the traditional brews, I do wish a had a real German Biergarten near me, isn't a novelty beer simply an expression of artistic creativity? If so, why can’t we have both? Would we ever have Belgian beers if tradition was a strick factor?

Without the historic creativity we’d still be drinking the nasty native brews we’ve read about in Zymurgy. No thanks.

I stand by my OM. The Peanut Butter Porter was amazing. Would I drink 5 gallons of the brew? Probably not. 1 or 2 pints? Yes.

To me, the end of the day/bottom line about the Peanut Butter Porter was it made to think. Made me consider other things such as a Lime Hefe. This too was amazing.