[HighVoltageMan!]

Whether you adjust the pH pre-boil or post boil, you should pitch lighter beers at 5.2 and darker beers at 5.4-5.5. At those pH’s the yeast will take over and will land at a range of pH specific to the yeast strain/style Post fermentation adjustments are a last resort. The risk of adding too much acid and ruining the beer are likely. Pitch at the proper pH and let the yeast can do it’s job. That’s one of many reason why pitch rates, vitality of yeast are so important. Let the yeast do the work and give it a shot by treating it right.

[Village Taphouse]

There is more on this topic in the other pH thread on the first page here.  That thread is quite long so a warning ahead of time.  The thread is also filled with links that deepen the topic further so put on your wetsuit and mask prior to opening it.    In my own beers recently I am trying very hard to keep my mash pH around 5.5 (room temp pH) because this is supposed to me a desirable pH for mashing and also for boiling.  But it was mentioned by Strong (or Palmer?) and also in a link in that thread that there are desirable pH ranges for mashing and boiling and also desirable pH ranges for finished beer flavor... and they are not the same.  Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it.  Also, kettle finings seem to work better at a lower pH so I have been making an acid addition directly to the kettle with 10 minutes left and then adding kettle finings with about 7 minutes left.  On the few batches where I have done this, the beer clarity was better and the beer had a more refreshing *SNAP* to it.  There is more research to be done.  Also, I hate, hate, hate to pass on dodgy information so if anyone is reading this and thinks that my comments need a caveat, a further explanation or a downright slap in the face, please post.  Although I have been brewing for 22+ years, I am new to this approach and I'm sure there will be tweaking and more learning but I like what I have seen so far.  Cheers Beerheads.   

[tommymorris]

There is more on this topic in the other pH thread on the first page here.  That thread is quite long so a warning ahead of time.  The thread is also filled with links that deepen the topic further so put on your wetsuit and mask prior to opening it.    In my own beers recently I am trying very hard to keep my mash pH around 5.5 (room temp pH) because this is supposed to me a desirable pH for mashing and also for boiling.  But it was mentioned by Strong (or Palmer?) and also in a link in that thread that there are desirable pH ranges for mashing and boiling and also desirable pH ranges for finished beer flavor... and they are not the same.  Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it.  Also, kettle finings seem to work better at a lower pH so I have been making an acid addition directly to the kettle with 10 minutes left and then adding kettle finings with about 7 minutes left.  On the few batches where I have done this, the beer clarity was better and the beer had a more refreshing *SNAP* to it.  There is more research to be done.  Also, I hate, hate, hate to pass on dodgy information so if anyone is reading this and thinks that my comments need a caveat, a further explanation or a downright slap in the face, please post.  Although I have been brewing for 22+ years, I am new to this approach and I'm sure there will be tweaking and more learning but I like what I have seen so far.  Cheers Beerheads.

I will add the caveat that you mostly brew lighter colored beers and lagers where that *SNAP* is desired. Other styles may not enjoy a similar taste benefit from lowering the PH.

[HighVoltageMan!]

Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it. 

If you pitch at the proper pH you should never need to have an acid addiction to the finish beer unless your compensating for dry hopping. If your not hitting your desired finish pH after hitting the correct pitch pH, you have fermentation issue or your need to swap yeasts to one that produces more or less acid depending on what your trying to accomplish. 

As I have said in the past, boil pH a very little impact on beer clarity unless it way out line. My beers are polished with a 5.1-5.15 boil pH. I’ve been doing it for years and winning locally and nationally in competitions for years as well. Don’t sweat it too much. Just get that pH right at pitch.

[Village Taphouse]

There is more on this topic in the other pH thread on the first page here.  That thread is quite long so a warning ahead of time.  The thread is also filled with links that deepen the topic further so put on your wetsuit and mask prior to opening it.    In my own beers recently I am trying very hard to keep my mash pH around 5.5 (room temp pH) because this is supposed to me a desirable pH for mashing and also for boiling.  But it was mentioned by Strong (or Palmer?) and also in a link in that thread that there are desirable pH ranges for mashing and boiling and also desirable pH ranges for finished beer flavor... and they are not the same.  Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it.  Also, kettle finings seem to work better at a lower pH so I have been making an acid addition directly to the kettle with 10 minutes left and then adding kettle finings with about 7 minutes left.  On the few batches where I have done this, the beer clarity was better and the beer had a more refreshing *SNAP* to it.  There is more research to be done.  Also, I hate, hate, hate to pass on dodgy information so if anyone is reading this and thinks that my comments need a caveat, a further explanation or a downright slap in the face, please post.  Although I have been brewing for 22+ years, I am new to this approach and I'm sure there will be tweaking and more learning but I like what I have seen so far.  Cheers Beerheads.

I will add the caveat that you mostly brew lighter colored beers and lagers where that *SNAP* is desired. Other styles may not enjoy a similar taste benefit from lowering the PH.

True.  I have not determined which of my recipes would benefit from this and which may not.  I also wanted to respond to one of the questions about whether most people would be able to tell if this kettle addition of acid was made.  I doubt there is a definitive answer and each brewer would have to try it and see which they prefer.  My guess is that if a batch were mashed and boiled at a pH in the mid-5s and there wasn't an acid addition made to the kettle, the beer could end up being flabby and lack that crisp finish.  There was a conversation on flabby beers HERE.  There is some wandering around about how much acid to use (which may depend on everyone's water) but it sounds to me like the point of it is that a beer with a high finished pH will not be as crisp and refreshing and may seem to be lacking something.  It should be noted that I played around the edges of this topic for years and never really did anything with it and thought my beers were fine.  So those who don't like the sound of this or think it's something to stay away from, by all means.  I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just trying to make the best possible beer with what I have.  Cheers gang.

[Village Taphouse]

Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it. 

If you pitch at the proper pH you should never need to have an acid addiction to the finish beer unless your compensating for dry hopping. If your not hitting your desired finish pH after hitting the correct pitch pH, you have fermentation issue or your need to swap yeasts to one that produces more or less acid depending on what your trying to accomplish. 

As I have said in the past, boil pH a very little impact on beer clarity unless it way out line. My beers are polished with a 5.1-5.15 boil pH. I’ve been doing it for years and winning locally and nationally in competitions for years as well. Don’t sweat it too much. Just get that pH right at pitch.

Not adding acid to finished beer... just with 10 minutes left in the boil. 

[Jayborracho]

So what exactly is the difference between, adjusting pre boil pH and boil pH? What does adjusting at those different times do?Or is it the same thing?

[HighVoltageMan!]

So what exactly is the difference between, adjusting pre boil pH and boil pH? What does adjusting at those different times do?Or is it the same thing?

Some theorize that a higher boil pH (5.4 or so) will lead to better protein precipitation, I haven't had any trouble with beer clarity and I prefer adjusting the preboil pH and be done with it. pH will sometimes change slightly during the boil, mostly lowering slightly. Honestly, as long as it is the correct ph at pitch, I really don't think it matters whether it's adjusted pre-boil, the last 10 minutes or at flame out. It's really just splitting hairs.

[Jayborracho]

So what exactly is the difference between, adjusting pre boil pH and boil pH? What does adjusting at those different times do?Or is it the same thing?

Some theorize that a higher boil pH (5.4 or so) will lead to better protein precipitation, I haven't had any trouble with beer clarity and I prefer adjusting the preboil pH and be done with it. pH will sometimes change slightly during the boil, mostly lowering slightly. Honestly, as long as it is the correct ph at pitch, I really don't think it matters whether it's adjusted pre-boil, the last 10 minutes or at flame out. It's really just splitting hairs.

So is pre boil ph pretty much the same as mash ph?

[denny]

So what exactly is the difference between, adjusting pre boil pH and boil pH? What does adjusting at those different times do?Or is it the same thing?

Some theorize that a higher boil pH (5.4 or so) will lead to better protein precipitation, I haven't had any trouble with beer clarity and I prefer adjusting the preboil pH and be done with it. pH will sometimes change slightly during the boil, mostly lowering slightly. Honestly, as long as it is the correct ph at pitch, I really don't think it matters whether it's adjusted pre-boil, the last 10 minutes or at flame out. It's really just splitting hairs.

So is pre boil ph pretty much the same as mash ph?

It seems like it would be.

[Village Taphouse]

So what exactly is the difference between, adjusting pre boil pH and boil pH? What does adjusting at those different times do?Or is it the same thing?

Some theorize that a higher boil pH (5.4 or so) will lead to better protein precipitation, I haven't had any trouble with beer clarity and I prefer adjusting the preboil pH and be done with it. pH will sometimes change slightly during the boil, mostly lowering slightly. Honestly, as long as it is the correct ph at pitch, I really don't think it matters whether it's adjusted pre-boil, the last 10 minutes or at flame out. It's really just splitting hairs.

I think we touched on this earlier and there was no specific answer.  What would happen if you boil at 5.1 - 5.2?  I have no idea.  Would it be just fine, would it cause clarity, etc?  No idea.  I know that boiling at a higher pH can cause a darkening of the wort.  But I thought there was information out there that said to boil at 5.5 and Kai was one source of that.  There was no mention of what would happen if the pH was lower than that.  So I boil in the mid 5s and then make this addition during the boil to lower the pH so the kettle finings will work better and to get closer to pitch pH which will hopefully get me to a good finished-beer pH. 

[Richard]

...What would happen if you boil at 5.1 - 5.2?  I have no idea.  Would it be just fine, would it cause clarity, etc?  No idea.  ...

I accidentally found out a few brews ago with a British Golden Ale. For some reason my mash pH was around 5.1 and I expected slow conversion, but it went rapidly and as efficiently as usual. The beer was light in color and the wort clarity seemed normal. It took some time to clear in the keg, but ended up a very clear and crisp beer that was so good I will do it again in a couple of weeks. If the pH had been 4.1 I would have expected big changes, but 5.1 - 5.2  is not that big a deal.

[Village Taphouse]

...What would happen if you boil at 5.1 - 5.2?  I have no idea.  Would it be just fine, would it cause clarity, etc?  No idea.  ...

I accidentally found out a few brews ago with a British Golden Ale. For some reason my mash pH was around 5.1 and I expected slow conversion, but it went rapidly and as efficiently as usual. The beer was light in color and the wort clarity seemed normal. It took some time to clear in the keg, but ended up a very clear and crisp beer that was so good I will do it again in a couple of weeks. If the pH had been 4.1 I would have expected big changes, but 5.1 - 5.2  is not that big a deal.

Nice.  That's good information.  I feel like I boiled at that pH a few times and I thought (although it could've been something else) that I caused clarity issues.  I feel like I absolutely want that lower pH for pitching and final beer pH because the beer is more refreshing and "snappy" but I have been doing the mid-5s for mashing and boiling. 

[HighVoltageMan!]

...What would happen if you boil at 5.1 - 5.2?  I have no idea.  Would it be just fine, would it cause clarity, etc?  No idea.  ...

I accidentally found out a few brews ago with a British Golden Ale. For some reason my mash pH was around 5.1 and I expected slow conversion, but it went rapidly and as efficiently as usual. The beer was light in color and the wort clarity seemed normal. It took some time to clear in the keg, but ended up a very clear and crisp beer that was so good I will do it again in a couple of weeks. If the pH had been 4.1 I would have expected big changes, but 5.1 - 5.2  is not that big a deal.

Nice.  That's good information.  I feel like I boiled at that pH a few times and I thought (although it could've been something else) that I caused clarity issues. I feel like I absolutely want that lower pH for pitching and final beer pH because the beer is more refreshing and "snappy" but I have been doing the mid-5s for mashing and boiling.

At the risk of repeating myself, pH in the boil is not so critical, pitch pH is much more important. As mentioned above, higher boil pH will increase color. As far as a lower pH producing a "snappy" beer, that depends on the yeast. Each yeast strain will land near a specific pH range reliably if the the pitch pH wasn't off by a great deal and has a healthy fermentation. WLP029 will drop the wort pH from 5.2 at pitch to 3.9-4.0 at the finish. 1056 will drop the pH from 5.2 to 4.4 or so, creating an entirely different finish. So a "snappy" Kolsch or American lager is a good thing, but not a snappy Porter or Stout. There is no one answer to all beers, but yeast is the main key to the final pH of the beer.

I feel like a dead horse is getting beaten.

[Silver_Is_Money]

It seems like it would be.

Sans that acid can easily be added both post mash and pre-boil.