[fredthecat]

i don't brew too many hop focused beers. when i've tried, i've sometimes had good luck, but i more often than not feel i should have gotten more bang for my buck in terms of hop impact from late/post-boil and dry hops.


i searched a few terms, but didnt see a thread like this immediately. if there is one, just let me know and feel free to delete this one. but otherwise,


does anyone have any major tips to increase/improve hop aroma??

i use a variety of yeasts, when i wanted a strong hop presence in say a APA, i do bittering hop addition of whatever desired IBU, then 1 or 2oz at 20mins i'd usually add 2oz at 5-3 min remaining and then dryhop 1 or 2oz

i get a good amount of hop aroma, but i feel like it could be stronger, more distinct. i often feel like my hops are just sort of a mixed up blast of "hoppiness". anyway, any suggestions?

[BrewBama]

There was an experiment conducted by Rock Bottom that I refer to. https://community.mbaa.com/HigherLogic/System/DownloadDocumentFile.ashx?DocumentFileKey=eede7cbc-9836-48d8-ab6b-d6b8b53e7792&forceDialog=1

(Note: this was done in a commercial brewery so could vary at home)

1. highly hopped beer might be better made using brewing liquors with lower sulfate concentrations.

2. longer postboil residence of kettle hop additions led to more hop flavor and aroma.

3. dry hopping was the best way to develop hop aroma, it might not be the best way to develop hop flavor.

4. a combination of long postboil kettle hop residence and dry hopping seemed to maximize combined hop aroma and flavor.

Dave Green summarized this study in his BYO article on the topic of hop stands:

“Another factor to consider is how to handle dry hopping your hop-forward beers if you employ an extended hop stand.

Rock Bottom Restaurant & Brewery performed an extensive study on hop stands and dry hopping under the guidance of the Portland, Oregon brewmaster at the time Van Havig, (now of Gigantic Brewing Co., Portland, Oregon).

The study was published by the Master Brewers Association of the Americas Technical Quarterly and considered beers that were hopped in four different ways, short hop stand (50 minutes) and no dry hops, long hop stand (80 minutes) and no dry hops, no hop stand and just dry hops and finally half the hops in hop stand (80 minutes) and half the hops for dry hopping.

Beers produced using exclusively hop stands and the beers produced using exclusively dry hops will both result in well-developed hop characteristics, but there were some nuances. The long hop stand developed more hop flavor and aroma than the short hop stand indicating that essential oils were still soaking into the wort after 50 minutes. The exclusively dry hopped beer received its best marks in the aroma department, higher than the hop stand beers, but scored lower for its hop flavor.

The beers where only half of the hops were added for the hop stand and half were added for aroma ended up scoring high in both departments.

Havig's study also showed that adding 1 lb./bbl (0.45 kg/bbl) Amarillo dry hops produced the same amount of hop aroma as ½ lb./bbl (0.23 kg/bbl), indicating diminishing returns at higher dry hop rates.”

Shellhammer limit = dry hop @ 1.1 oz/gal or 2.1 lbs/bbl.  1 oz/ gal is close enough IMO.

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[pete b]

My improvements came from a few things. I don’t brew often enough to change one variable at a time so I tend to do a kitchen sink approach when trying to reach a desired result so I can’t tell you which of these does more.
My improved hop aroma came after dry hopping with larger amounts, like 3 or 4 ounces, doing my best at a closed transfer from fermenter to keg, and adding an ounce or two of hops in a mesh bag in my serving keg.

[dmtaylor]

Try hop bursting.  Don't use any bittering hops, but rather use software to calculate how much hops you would need total to hit your IBU goal with just ~10 minutes left in the boil.  Then just do that one addition at 10 minutes.

With dry hopping, if you want maximum hop flavor and aroma, you need to use not just 1-2 ounces, but about 4 ounces.  That's the point where you achieve the best balance between big hop character and not a complete waste of hops (like if you used 5 or more ounces).  Your amounts have been too small for big hop character.

No need to make the additions complicated.  A hop burst alone might get you what you want.  When followed up by dry hopping in a greater amount, you'll be successful.  No need for 5 or 6 different hop additions.  Just these two times alone would be real helpful.

[grizwold]

Dmtaylor said: "Try hop bursting.  Don't use any bittering hops, but rather use software to calculate how much hops you would need total to hit your IBU goal with just ~10 minutes left in the boil.  Then just do that one addition at 10 minutes."

Yes to this! Since starting this I have greatly improved both flavor and aroma.

(OK--couldn't see how to quote but belatedly found the button in plain sight)

[denny]

Try hop bursting.  Don't use any bittering hops, but rather use software to calculate how much hops you would need total to hit your IBU goal with just ~10 minutes left in the boil.  Then just do that one addition at 10 minutes.

With dry hopping, if you want maximum hop flavor and aroma, you need to use not just 1-2 ounces, but about 4 ounces.  That's the point where you achieve the best balance between big hop character and not a complete waste of hops (like if you used 5 or more ounces).  Your amounts have been too small for big hop character.

No need to make the additions complicated.  A hop burst alone might get you what you want.  When followed up by dry hopping in a greater amount, you'll be successful.  No need for 5 or 6 different hop additions.  Just these two times alone would be real helpful.

If you want a beer where the bitterness comes from tannins, that works.  Not what I'm looking for.

[denny]

For me, the improvements I've made recently come down to 2 things.....short xold dry hopping and looking at survivables and complementary oils.  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

[fredthecat]

very cool guys. thanks

#1 - definitely a real hopstand. i was trying to do one, but wasn't willing to give it real time to sit, as i wanted to get my boiled wort done and over with, i was adding hops at 1 or 2 mins then assuming that was a hopstand while i spent 20 mins cooling the wort. ill look into the suggested times and temps on that.


#2 more dry hops. again, i am usually about speed, and i always hated waiting for dry hops to fall out


i've tried hop bursting before using large amounts of high AA hops at 20 mins and 5 mins, and i think it does work well. just checking my notes and the last beer i did that on did have an impressive overall hoppiness. i didn't find any of the bitterness unpleasant - tannins? not sure


thanks guys. definitely ideas learned.

[BrewBama]

…  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

…which can be found here: https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf

The accompanying video is here: https://youtu.be/NfoWdgH9F2o

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[denny]

…  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

…which can be found here: https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf

The accompanying video is here: https://youtu.be/NfoWdgH9F2o

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Thanks for digging that up!  Fascinaring info...

[fredthecat]

…  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

…which can be found here: https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf

The accompanying video is here: https://youtu.be/NfoWdgH9F2o

oh my god that PDF is full of info lol.

my head is spinning looking at it as i just spent the waking time of the past 48 hours writing similarly indepth details for a marketing report.

[denny]

…  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

…which can be found here: https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf

The accompanying video is here: https://youtu.be/NfoWdgH9F2o

oh my god that PDF is full of info lol.

my head is spinning looking at it as i just spent the waking time of the past 48 hours writing similarly indepth details for a marketing report.

I had an opportunity to attend a tasting of beers made with cryopop utilizing these techniques.  Very eye opening.  What especially attracted my attention were the charts of complementary hops and when and how to use them.

[erockrph]

I get the most hop flavor from a long (60-90 minutes) hop stand/whirlpool at hot temps (180-190F). I get the most hop aroma from dry hops. That said, whirlpool hops also add aroma, and dry hops add flavor. Still, I just can't get the flavor and aroma I want in super hoppy beers without both types of additions.

Cryo hops have made a big improvement for me in reducing (but not eliminating) a lot of the unpleasant bitterness from higher hop utilization, while increasing hop aroma and flavor - so much so that I've been slowly decreasing my hop utilization rates in IPA's for the first time since I've started brewing.

[BrewBama]

I get the most hop flavor from a long (60-90 minutes) hop stand/whirlpool at hot temps (180-190F). I get the most hop aroma from dry hops. That said, whirlpool hops also add aroma, and dry hops add flavor. Still, I just can't get the flavor and aroma I want in super hoppy beers without both types of additions.

…

The report cited in post #2 (above) came to the same conclusion.



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[Wilbur]

…  Yakima Chief has recently done research and published a booklet describing how to decide on hop combos based on those.

…which can be found here: https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf

The accompanying video is here: https://youtu.be/NfoWdgH9F2o

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Super interesting. I've been trying longer whirlpools and dryhopping, but have had mixed results. Some of the hops I've been using are toward the right side of that survivables chart. I might need to switch my mindset to "All purpose" hops (Centennial, Ekuanot, Crystal) and finishing hops (Cashmere, Amarillo, El Dorado).