[rungdalek]

Does it do any good to have flaked maize in an extract recipe w/o a base malt to convert it?

Is the purpose to really just make a starchy haze in the beer or give it a corn like taste?

https://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/Recipe_Instructions_2019/k99-2960.pdf

[RC]

No to the first question. You won't get any fermentable sugars from the corn in this recipe.

The purpose of using flaked corn in a recipe is to add fermentable sugars while lightening up the beer's body and color. You do get a little corn flavor from it, but not much. Steeping it like in this recipe might add a slight corn flavor, and yes, it might add a haze from dissolved, but unconverted, starches. Not sure why you'd want to do that in a cream ale.

That said, in the interest of me taking my own advice, I shouldn't criticize this recipe without having my own empirical observations about steeping flaked corn at ~150 degrees in the absence of an enzymatic base malt. I've never done this, nor am I going to, but it might turn out just fine.

[ynotbrusum]

Maybe the kit has enzymes added to the flaked maize?

[erockrph]

I've steeped flaked barley, Victory, and Aromatic malts in extract batches and I picked up a flavor contribution without noticing excessive haze. But that was either to add body or flavor to a more flavorful beer. Flaked maize in a Cream Ale is a different animal. It's purpose is primarily to add fermentables without adding much protein. It may add a bit of flavor, but that's not necessarily the primary goal of the maize in this recipe. If I were brewing that recipe I'd consider using dextrose or table sugar instead, since that would probably come closer to accomplishing what the maize was included in the all grain version of the recipe for.

[Village Taphouse]

When I was an extract brewer, recipes that used corn used it in syrup form.  I had a number of recipes with corn syrup and also rice syrup.  In an AG recipe, I agree that it's about lightening the body and color, possibly getting *some* amount of corn flavor and it also seems to lend a smidge of sweetness depending on the percentage used.  I generally don't go higher than about 10%.

[fredthecat]

I've steeped flaked barley, Victory, and Aromatic malts in extract batches and I picked up a flavor contribution without noticing excessive haze. But that was either to add body or flavor to a more flavorful beer. Flaked maize in a Cream Ale is a different animal. It's purpose is primarily to add fermentables without adding much protein. It may add a bit of flavor, but that's not necessarily the primary goal of the maize in this recipe. If I were brewing that recipe I'd consider using dextrose or table sugar instead, since that would probably come closer to accomplishing what the maize was included in the all grain version of the recipe for.

thinking the same thing.


i notice OP is really interested in the making of macro beers, and its kinda boggling to me really.

on a homebrew level if you want to make a BMC style beer there are tons of CAP recipes out there if you want to go the corn route, if not i would just do pale 2 row grain or extract and add dextrose to lighten colour and body and hop to ~15 IBU with whatever hop you want.

[rungdalek]

When I was an extract brewer, recipes that used corn used it in syrup form.  I had a number of recipes with corn syrup and also rice syrup.  In an AG recipe, I agree that it's about lightening the body and color, possibly getting *some* amount of corn flavor and it also seems to lend a smidge of sweetness depending on the percentage used.  I generally don't go higher than about 10%.

Great, but what does that have to do with the OP?  We're talking about a recipe that has flaked maize with *no* enzymes for conversion?  What does that do to the final beer?

[rungdalek]

I've steeped flaked barley, Victory, and Aromatic malts in extract batches and I picked up a flavor contribution without noticing excessive haze. But that was either to add body or flavor to a more flavorful beer. Flaked maize in a Cream Ale is a different animal. It's purpose is primarily to add fermentables without adding much protein. It may add a bit of flavor, but that's not necessarily the primary goal of the maize in this recipe. If I were brewing that recipe I'd consider using dextrose or table sugar instead, since that would probably come closer to accomplishing what the maize was included in the all grain version of the recipe for.

thinking the same thing.


i notice OP is really interested in the making of macro beers, and its kinda boggling to me really.

on a homebrew level if you want to make a BMC style beer there are tons of CAP recipes out there if you want to go the corn route, if not i would just do pale 2 row grain or extract and add dextrose to lighten colour and body and hop to ~15 IBU with whatever hop you want.

Sure, I'm interested in macro beers, but again what is the purpose of having flaked maize in a recipe with no enzymes for conversion?  What does it do the final beer, or is it just a mistake?

[fredthecat]

i have no clue as i've never used corn (have used rice many times), just like i've never used cluster hops.


you could always try it and find out?

[Village Taphouse]

When I was an extract brewer, recipes that used corn used it in syrup form.  I had a number of recipes with corn syrup and also rice syrup.  In an AG recipe, I agree that it's about lightening the body and color, possibly getting *some* amount of corn flavor and it also seems to lend a smidge of sweetness depending on the percentage used.  I generally don't go higher than about 10%.

Great, but what does that have to do with the OP?  We're talking about a recipe that has flaked maize with *no* enzymes for conversion?  What does that do to the final beer?

Sorry to disappoint. 

[rungdalek]

i have no clue as i've never used corn (have used rice many times), just like i've never used cluster hops.


you could always try it and find out?

I just might have to do that...

[rungdalek]

When I was an extract brewer, recipes that used corn used it in syrup form.  I had a number of recipes with corn syrup and also rice syrup.  In an AG recipe, I agree that it's about lightening the body and color, possibly getting *some* amount of corn flavor and it also seems to lend a smidge of sweetness depending on the percentage used.  I generally don't go higher than about 10%.

Great, but what does that have to do with the OP?  We're talking about a recipe that has flaked maize with *no* enzymes for conversion?  What does that do to the final beer?

Sorry to disappoint.

Now don't go feeling sorry for yourself, you have valid points but they just didn't seem to apply directly to the OP.  In fact your website and recipes were valuable resources to me when I got started.

[denny]

When I was an extract brewer, recipes that used corn used it in syrup form.  I had a number of recipes with corn syrup and also rice syrup.  In an AG recipe, I agree that it's about lightening the body and color, possibly getting *some* amount of corn flavor and it also seems to lend a smidge of sweetness depending on the percentage used.  I generally don't go higher than about 10%.

Great, but what does that have to do with the OP?  We're talking about a recipe that has flaked maize with *no* enzymes for conversion?  What does that do to the final beer?

It leaves starch in the beer that increases the likelihood of infection

[erockrph]

I've steeped flaked barley, Victory, and Aromatic malts in extract batches and I picked up a flavor contribution without noticing excessive haze. But that was either to add body or flavor to a more flavorful beer. Flaked maize in a Cream Ale is a different animal. It's purpose is primarily to add fermentables without adding much protein. It may add a bit of flavor, but that's not necessarily the primary goal of the maize in this recipe. If I were brewing that recipe I'd consider using dextrose or table sugar instead, since that would probably come closer to accomplishing what the maize was included in the all grain version of the recipe for.

thinking the same thing.


i notice OP is really interested in the making of macro beers, and its kinda boggling to me really.

on a homebrew level if you want to make a BMC style beer there are tons of CAP recipes out there if you want to go the corn route, if not i would just do pale 2 row grain or extract and add dextrose to lighten colour and body and hop to ~15 IBU with whatever hop you want.

Sure, I'm interested in macro beers, but again what is the purpose of having flaked maize in a recipe with no enzymes for conversion?  What does it do the final beer, or is it just a mistake?

The easy way out for converting an AG recipe to extract is to convert the base malt to extract and steep everything else. I've seen many head scratcher extract recipes over the years, and I'm sure part of it is because the authors never brewed them. The person who wrote the recipe probably wasn't thinking about this at as high of a level as we are


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[denny]

I've steeped flaked barley, Victory, and Aromatic malts in extract batches and I picked up a flavor contribution without noticing excessive haze. But that was either to add body or flavor to a more flavorful beer. Flaked maize in a Cream Ale is a different animal. It's purpose is primarily to add fermentables without adding much protein. It may add a bit of flavor, but that's not necessarily the primary goal of the maize in this recipe. If I were brewing that recipe I'd consider using dextrose or table sugar instead, since that would probably come closer to accomplishing what the maize was included in the all grain version of the recipe for.

thinking the same thing.


i notice OP is really interested in the making of macro beers, and its kinda boggling to me really.

on a homebrew level if you want to make a BMC style beer there are tons of CAP recipes out there if you want to go the corn route, if not i would just do pale 2 row grain or extract and add dextrose to lighten colour and body and hop to ~15 IBU with whatever hop you want.

Sure, I'm interested in macro beers, but again what is the purpose of having flaked maize in a recipe with no enzymes for conversion?  What does it do the final beer, or is it just a mistake?

I'd call it a mistake.  At the very least it's bad brewing practice.