[gordonmonaghan]

Does anyone out there have much experience with Wyeast 3726? 

I pitched a pack into five gallons of 1.060 wort at 80 F on Monday evening.  Tuesday morning, less than 12 hours later, it was roiling and churning and bubbling like a champ.  This morning (Thursday), I checked and it has slowed to maybe a bubble every thirty seconds, indicating the end of fermentation approaches. 

Has anyone else found it to be a fast worker?  My experience with other strains (WLP 565, 566, 590 and Wyeast 3711) is that they take a little longer than this.  The Dupont strain takes a lot longer. 

[HoosierBrew]

I used it last year (and liked it a lot), but at a much different temp schedule. I held 67F for 72 hrs, then came up 2 degrees F/day until hitting 80F. Held there until FG. IIRC it took ~ 2.5 weeks to hit FG. It's possible by fermenting @ 80F that it did the bulk of its work quickly, but I don't know that as fact. I've never heard stalling talk surrounding 3726 and wouldn't expect it to stall @ 80 if that were the case. I'd wait a few days days and check FG to see where you're at. Let us know what you find.

[reverseapachemaster]

The Dupont derived strains all seem to have a little sluggishness to them. 3726 shares a relationship with Dupont's yeast but is not known for stalling.

I'm not surprised that a healthy pitch of 3726 at 80F has chewed through the beer so quickly. I am surprised that you do not have similar results with 3711.

[stpug]

My first saison with 3726, fermented warm/hot (75F ramped to 90F), finished it's fermentation in 4 days. It works FAST at warm temps.

[gordonmonaghan]

I'm not surprised that a healthy pitch of 3726 at 80F has chewed through the beer so quickly. I am surprised that you do not have similar results with 3711.

I usually don't pitch at 80F, but I read somewhere that one should pitch warm; perhaps it was on another post on this forum.  So, that's probably what going on, since I usually pitch at the toop end of usual ales temps, like 68-72F. 

I found a blogpost last night on Brasserie de Blaugies (purportedly the origin of 3726), and the brewmaster, Kevin Carlier, pitches really warm, and his fermentations are done in a few days.  Pretty cool.  I will take a gravity reading tonight.

[kylekohlmorgen]

The problem with pitching so warm is that you have to keep the temperature of the fermenting beer from dropping after high krausen.

It sounds like you started at 80F (above ambient temp), fermentation warmed the beer a few degrees when it took off, then the beer began to cool as fermentation slowed down, which encouraged the yeast to flocculate, slowing attenuation. It doesn't help that 3726 is a fairly heavy flocculator.

This was my crux when I started fermenting saisons in my basement - I had to not only get the beer warm but keep it warm. 5 gallons of beer does not hold 80-85F in a room that is 65-65F.

I love 3726 and it has become my house saison yeast (until it rolls off as a seasonal and I neglect my slurry), but these recommendations could be used for brewing saison with any strain.

Here are my recommendations:

1. Stop fermenting so warm. Its not necessary with proper temp control, especially with 3726. For this yeast, I found that starting at 67F and allowing free-rise (or slowly heating) into the mid 70s produces a balanced set of yeast-driven flavors and allows complete fermentation in short order (7-10 days). Higher temperatures don't produce better results but do make it harder to control temperature at the end of fermentation.

2. If you have a fermentation fridge, invest in a $20 heating pad like the one below. With a 2-stage controller, it works wonders up to ~85F. I mostly use it to keep the fermentor temp constant as fermentation slows, but I've also used it to slowly warm the fermentor when fermentation doesn't produce enough free-rise. Glass carboys keep enough heat in, but plastic buckets often need a little help getting to that 70-72F.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FGDDI0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

3. If you don't have fermentation temp control, start fermentation below room temperature (65-67F) in a cooler portion of your house. During or immediately after high krausen, move the fermentor to a warmer part of your house and wrap tightly in blankets. You can use the heating pad to keep it warm, but it takes a lot of manipulation and can easily overheat your beer.

4. Provide adequate oxygen. With 3726, I've seen longer fermentation times when I've shaken to aerate vs. oxygenating with a stone. Perhaps its correlation instead of causation, but more O2 won't hurt.

5. If you don't have fermentation temp control, use a glass carboy. It is a better insulator than plastic and can help moderate temperature loss.

Cheers!

[gordonmonaghan]

I disagree with you, Kyle, about fermenting warm, especially with saison yeasts. Most of the funk comes from warm ferm temps, especially early. Also, I kept the glass carboy (6 g, Italian) at ~80 F after pitching with a heating pad, a blanket and a couple of bungies. Usually I'll pitch my said one colder (mid 70s), and then allow them to free-rise, usually into the high 70s. That's worked well with 3724, 3711, WLP 566 & 590.

I took a reading today (Saturday) and it's at 1.007! Tastes awesome. Funky and tart, and not surprisingly dry. I will check tomorrow and the next day, and if it's stable (which at 87.7% apparent attenuation, I think it will be), I'll cold crash it and bottle next weekend.

[reverseapachemaster]

I also disagree about the irrelevance of fermenting warm. I prefer the yeast character of a warm fermentation over a cooler one. Some strains in the mid-70s or lower are bland in my opinion.

[gordonmonaghan]

Took another reading last night and it's at 1.004.  There's a bit of alcohol warmth to it, which isn't surprising given that its sitting at 7.4% ABV.  I'm sure that will mellow as it bottle conditions.  Very happy so far with this yeast.  Going to run to LHBS this afternoon to pick up some more. 

[klickitat jim]

Took another reading last night and it's at 1.004.  There's a bit of alcohol warmth to it, which isn't surprising given that its sitting at 7.4% ABV.  I'm sure that will mellow as it bottle conditions.  Very happy so far with this yeast.  Going to run to LHBS this afternoon to pick up some more.

I'd did a big saison on 3724 secondary on Bret which was warm after a month in the bottle, but that went away after two months

[kylekohlmorgen]

I knew I'd get some flack for bucking the 'knowns' set forth by forum lore. 

I also disagree about the irrelevance of fermenting warm...

Fermentation temperature is absolutely relevant. My suggestion was to go lower if the warmer temps can't be consistently maintained.

Fermentation is affected by several factors other than fermentation temperature. I don't ferment warm because its more problematic than helpful for me. If it works for you, by all means, keep doing it, but don't be afraid to try different methods.

One of the problems I've had with warm fermentations is an ethanol aroma/flavor. Jim's experience with 3724 is spot-on with mine: I've fermented 3724 warm then had to wait several weeks for the harsh alcohol flavors to dissipate. Could be the case with 3726 as well, but time will tell. Carbonation and bottle conditioning (plus tasting the beer at serving temps vs 80F!) also helps.

I also love 3726 for bottle conditioning because it drops like a rock. Might as well use it if you have healthy slurry or if you intend to buy more. I also need to stock up since its rolling off the seasonal schedule soon!

What kind of heat pad are you using? Maybe mine is just weak! Also - how are you monitoring temp in the fermentor? I like a thermowell for measuring during primary, but I'm considering moving it to the side during conditioning.

[reverseapachemaster]

What kind of heat pad are you using? Maybe mine is just weak! Also - how are you monitoring temp in the fermentor? I like a thermowell for measuring during primary, but I'm considering moving it to the side during conditioning.

I use reptile tape which is a product designed to heat reptile tanks from the bottom. It's the same idea as a brewbelt but with two heat elements. I wrap it around the fermentor and tape it on. It's plugged into a Johnson temperature controller and then placed in my fermentation fridge. The temperature probe is taped to the side of the fermentor where the belt isn't. I've gotten that set up all the way up to 110 (for lacto) without a problem. Once fermentation gets going the fermentor stays warm enough with the fridge's insulation and the heat from the fermentation so it's barely even running until fermentation winds down.

[dbeechum]

Because I'm trying to pass a Federal law to share this with all Saison brewers

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

[brewinhard]

What kind of heat pad are you using? Maybe mine is just weak! Also - how are you monitoring temp in the fermentor? I like a thermowell for measuring during primary, but I'm considering moving it to the side during conditioning.

I use reptile tape which is a product designed to heat reptile tanks from the bottom. It's the same idea as a brewbelt but with two heat elements. I wrap it around the fermentor and tape it on. It's plugged into a Johnson temperature controller and then placed in my fermentation fridge. The temperature probe is taped to the side of the fermentor where the belt isn't. I've gotten that set up all the way up to 110 (for lacto) without a problem. Once fermentation gets going the fermentor stays warm enough with the fridge's insulation and the heat from the fermentation so it's barely even running until fermentation winds down.

+1 with the addition of a thermowell for my setup. 

[kylekohlmorgen]

Nice!

Have either of you gotten the Reptile Tape wet? How does it hold up?