[trapae]

Need a little help. I’ve been using Bru’n water for my last four batches after I got an RO water set up in my house. This is my first one doing a darker beer. The water profile I’m shooting for is kind of like a balanced amber, but with a little higher chloride than sulfate as follows: 

calcium-50, magnesium-10, sodium-35, sulfate-50, chloride-80.
I’m shooting for a mash pH of 5.5.  I have the program set to add all minerals to the mash and none to the Sparge.

With my additions so far, I’m close to the correct mineral profile however the pH is 5.16.  Should add some baking soda to get the pH around 5.5, but when I do that, I get a Redbox in the baking soda category at the far right at bicarbonate saying 109. Is that OK? Or is there another better way to increase the pH? Also, if anyone has opinions on my Water profile or pH I would appreciate input. Thanks so much.

[denny]

Need a little help. I’ve been using Bru’n water for my last four batches after I got an RO water set up in my house. This is my first one doing a darker beer. The water profile I’m shooting for is kind of like a balanced amber, but with a little higher chloride than sulfate as follows: 

calcium-50, magnesium-10, sodium-35, sulfate-50, chloride-80.
I’m shooting for a mash pH of 5.5.  I have the program set to add all minerals to the mash and none to the Sparge.

With my additions so far, I’m close to the correct mineral profile however the pH is 5.16.  Should add some baking soda to get the pH around 5.5, but when I do that, I get a Redbox in the baking soda category at the far right at bicarbonate saying 109. Is that OK? Or is there another better way to increase the pH? Also, if anyone has opinions on my Water profile or pH I would appreciate input. Thanks so much.

I use pickling lime

[BrewBama]

Get your mash pH right with CaCl and add everything else to the kettle (post mash).


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[CounterPressure]

Get your mash pH right with CaCl and add everything else to the kettle (post mash).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think if you read the little tooltip notes in the Excel spreadsheet you will see it tells you to do exactly this. You don't want to add all of the minerals to the mash, and in fact you don't even want to put them in the sparge. Put the sparge additions in the kettle and only add the stuff it says to put in the mash, in the mash.

[trapae]

Hmmmm, i’m looking, where does it say to only add CaCl to the mash and everything else to the kettle. I was under the impression to just build your water profile in the mash and then make sure your pH is right. Are you supposed to add the total other mineral additions from the spreadsheet to the kettle and only have RO water and CaCl in the mash?

[CounterPressure]

I'm sure everybody does it different but I put the mash additions in the mash and the sparge additions in the kettle, just the way it says to do it on the notes in the spreadsheet. I'm not sure exactly where I read it, but suffice to say it's in there. I'm not going to tell you it won't work if you put it all in the mash, odds are it will be just fine.

I see you are adding a little bit of magnesium and I think they say that's a really good thing when you are using only filtered water. I believe if you read the water knowledge page it will tell you that starting with absolutely no magnesium in the water is a bad thing for the yeast. I don't recall where I saw it, and you can just ignore I said this if you like. But I think that's important. That might only be for distilled water, but I just don't recall. I don't use either so it's never been a concern to me.

[BrewBama]

Hmmmm, i’m looking, where does it say to only add CaCl to the mash and everything else to the kettle.

It says it here: 4.3.13 Delaying Hardness Mineral Additions to the Mash, at this link: https://www.brunwater.com/water-knowledge

“…  Although calcium and magnesium minerals can be important additions to brewing water, they are not absolutely needed in the mash when the alkalinity is too low for the mash.  As long as those minerals are added to the wort prior to fermentation, they will still serve their purpose as if originally added to the mash without the detriment of decreasing mash pH too far.  The calcium and/or magnesium additions intended for the mash can be added directly the kettle prior to the boil to provide the desired water profile to the wort.  …”

The priority of the mash is to convert starch to sugars. To do that certain enzymes need a certain water temp window and pH window.  Calcium is used to aid the reaction (co-factor). Everything else is a stylistic seasoning that can be added at any point after the priority function of sugar production is complete. Mash temp, pH, and a little Calcium are the priorities at this point in the brewing process.

Of course it doesn’t have to be CaCl.  It could be gypsum, calcium hydroxide, or calcium carbonate. …but CaCl is so convenient especially since you are aiming for 80 ppm chloride.


One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

[trapae]

Thanks so much for sending me that link.
Just for curiosity, however, is there anything wrong with adding baking soda to the mash? Any downside?

[BrewBama]

Thanks so much for sending me that link.
Just for curiosity, however, is there anything wrong with adding baking soda to the mash? Any downside?

Many do. The downside for me is the taste of the beer …so I don’t add bicarbonate.

4.3.3 Baking Soda

“Baking Soda increases alkalinity and is readily soluble in water, but its usage should be limited if the sodium content of the brewing water is a concern.  Sodium at a concentration of 100 ppm or more may produce harshness in the beer flavor.  Baking soda is relatively inert and does not degrade. Therefore, its strength (alkalinity) can typically be assumed to be consistent. A baking soda addition of 1 gram per gallon of water, increases the bicarbonate content of the water by about 192 ppm and the sodium content by about 72 ppm.  Another way to look at baking soda's contribution is that when added to produce a moderate sodium increase of 40 ppm, the alkalinity of the water increases by over 85 ppm (as CaCO3).  That alkalinity increase is often sufficient for brewing many dark beers.”

One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

[goose]

Need a little help. I’ve been using Bru’n water for my last four batches after I got an RO water set up in my house. This is my first one doing a darker beer. The water profile I’m shooting for is kind of like a balanced amber, but with a little higher chloride than sulfate as follows: 

calcium-50, magnesium-10, sodium-35, sulfate-50, chloride-80.
I’m shooting for a mash pH of 5.5.  I have the program set to add all minerals to the mash and none to the Sparge.

With my additions so far, I’m close to the correct mineral profile however the pH is 5.16.  Should add some baking soda to get the pH around 5.5, but when I do that, I get a Redbox in the baking soda category at the far right at bicarbonate saying 109. Is that OK? Or is there another better way to increase the pH? Also, if anyone has opinions on my Water profile or pH I would appreciate input. Thanks so much.

I use pickling lime

+1

[goose]

I'm sure everybody does it different but I put the mash additions in the mash and the sparge additions in the kettle, just the way it says to do it on the notes in the spreadsheet. I'm not sure exactly where I read it, but suffice to say it's in there. I'm not going to tell you it won't work if you put it all in the mash, odds are it will be just fine.

I see you are adding a little bit of magnesium and I think they say that's a really good thing when you are using only filtered water. I believe if you read the water knowledge page it will tell you that starting with absolutely no magnesium in the water is a bad thing for the yeast. I don't recall where I saw it, and you can just ignore I said this if you like. But I think that's important. That might only be for distilled water, but I just don't recall. I don't use either so it's never been a concern to me.

I have been doing it this way for years.  The only thing that goes into the sparge water is Phosphoric Acid to get the pH down into the 5.2-5.6 range.  That keeps the pH from climbing when I am running off the wort into the kettle to prevent the extraction of tannins from the grain husks.

Note:  I calculate the salt additions to the kettle by subtracting the mash liquor amount from the kettle full amount and weigh out the kettle additions using that value.  For example, if I have 8 gallons of liquor in the mash tun for the mash and need 13 gallons in the kettle when full (11 gallon batch), the salt additions to the kettle are calculated for 5 gallons and not for the entire amount of sparge liquor needed.

[trapae]

Why pickling lime versus baking soda?  And do you add the rest of the minerals to the kettle or the mash? Wondering what other people do?

[goose]

Why pickling lime versus baking soda?  And do you add the rest of the minerals to the kettle or the mash? Wondering what other people do?

We are talking two different things.  Baking soda will add additional sodium to the water profile, pickling lime will add additional calcium.  Both will increase the pH of the water.  However, if you want to keep your sodium levels in the proper range but increase the pH and calcium content, use pickling lime.  To a point higher calcium levels will not effect the beer flavor as much as too high a level of sodium which will generate a metallic taste.

Pickling lime is used instead of chalk (Calcium Carbonate) because it dissolves more easily in water.  The water needs to be pretty hot (near strike temperature) to get chalk to go into solution.

[Cliffs]

Need a little help. I’ve been using Bru’n water for my last four batches after I got an RO water set up in my house. This is my first one doing a darker beer. The water profile I’m shooting for is kind of like a balanced amber, but with a little higher chloride than sulfate as follows: 

calcium-50, magnesium-10, sodium-35, sulfate-50, chloride-80.
I’m shooting for a mash pH of 5.5.  I have the program set to add all minerals to the mash and none to the Sparge.

With my additions so far, I’m close to the correct mineral profile however the pH is 5.16.  Should add some baking soda to get the pH around 5.5, but when I do that, I get a Redbox in the baking soda category at the far right at bicarbonate saying 109. Is that OK? Or is there another better way to increase the pH? Also, if anyone has opinions on my Water profile or pH I would appreciate input. Thanks so much.

my two cents, add calcium sulfate and calcium chloride to get your sulfates and chlorides into whatever range you want them to be, then use either an acid or base to get your PH in range. Ignore all the other stuff.