[fredthecat]

Can I brew a German hefe with a neutral yeast and mimic the banana flavor using actual bananas?

i do love thought experiments, i have so far had a lot of trouble using baking/kitchen grade extracts to really transmit significant flavour to my beers, ie. vanilla, almond, chocolate extracts. they are either barely noticeable or different tasting.

maybe someone has advice on that - i know the brewing grade ones get positive reception.


not banana aroma but CLOVE - im wondering about enhancing clove with actual cloves at some point as well. i bet that would work well.

i know that using actual spices in belgians has fallen way way out of popularity, but i intend to use coriander again next belgian series i brew. i remember really enjoying the beers i had made with it long ago. maybe it's time to start experimenting again.

final addendum: i believe due to age, getting a covid loss-of-smell period, other factors my ability to detect banana aroma has gone down a lot. sometimes im reminded when people discuss banana aroma in weizens or other beers and i feel sad about that lol.

[Drewch]

I've tried a few drops of banana "essence" in a glass, and it didn't work very well.

As in the flavor didn't come though? Or it tasted bad/fake?

[denny]

Can I brew a German hefe with a neutral yeast and mimic the banana flavor using actual bananas?

i do love thought experiments, i have so far had a lot of trouble using baking/kitchen grade extracts to really transmit significant flavour to my beers, ie. vanilla, almond, chocolate extracts. they are either barely noticeable or different tasting.

maybe someone has advice on that - i know the brewing grade ones get positive reception.


not banana aroma but CLOVE - im wondering about enhancing clove with actual cloves at some point as well. i bet that would work well.

i know that using actual spices in belgians has fallen way way out of popularity, but i intend to use coriander again next belgian series i brew. i remember really enjoying the beers i had made with it long ago. maybe it's time to start experimenting again.

final addendum: i believe due to age, getting a covid loss-of-smell period, other factors my ability to detect banana aroma has gone down a lot. sometimes im reminded when people discuss banana aroma in weizens or other beers and i feel sad about that lol.

It's not about cooking/brewing. It's simply about finding good extracts. I've used Olive Nation with good results. For chocolate, try Star Kay White.

Actual spices in Belgian styles is still very much a thing. In the current episode of Brew Files, we examine wit beer. Bitter orange peel for bittering, coriander for orange flavor. The way it's supposed to be.

[saaz amore]

I've tried a few drops of banana "essence" in a glass, and it didn't work very well.

As in the flavor didn't come though? Or it tasted bad/fake?

Probably a combination of two drops coming through too well and therefore tasting fake. Works great in banana bread and homemade yogurt, though.

[goose]

i know that using actual spices in belgians has fallen way way out of popularity, but i intend to use coriander again next belgian series i brew. i remember really enjoying the beers i had made with it long ago. maybe it's time to start experimenting again.

I put corriander, black pepper and sweet orange peel in my Saison and it comes out great.  Got the idea from Charley Papazian years ago.

[brewthru]

If you're just looking for banana and don't want to fuss with a weizen strain, S04 fermented around 74F will throw a ton of banana.

Great to know! Thank you.

[BrewBama]

i know that using actual spices in belgians has fallen way way out of popularity, but i intend to use coriander again next belgian series i brew. i remember really enjoying the beers i had made with it long ago. maybe it's time to start experimenting again.

I put corriander, black pepper and sweet orange peel in my Saison and it comes out great.  Got the idea from Charley Papazian years ago.

+1. I used orange peel and coriander in a recent Saison. It’s still carbonating but my sneak taste was very promising. I definitely noticed the orange.

Can I brew a German hefe with a neutral yeast and mimic the banana flavor using actual bananas?

As far a clove and banana in a hefe:  I’ve read there is a correlation between glucose and the banana esters Hefeweizen yeast produce. I’ve read the phenolic clove contribution comes from low temp ferulic acid rest.

The Herrmann Verfahren mash technique can increase glucose and ferulic acid. …but it’s all for nothing without the yeast.  So I don’t think it can be substituted.


One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

[fredthecat]

i know that using actual spices in belgians has fallen way way out of popularity, but i intend to use coriander again next belgian series i brew. i remember really enjoying the beers i had made with it long ago. maybe it's time to start experimenting again.

I put corriander, black pepper and sweet orange peel in my Saison and it comes out great.  Got the idea from Charley Papazian years ago.

+1. I used orange peel and coriander in a recent Saison. It’s still carbonating but my sneak taste was very promising. I definitely noticed the orange.

Can I brew a German hefe with a neutral yeast and mimic the banana flavor using actual bananas?

As far a clove and banana in a hefe:  I’ve read there is a correlation between glucose and the banana esters Hefeweizen yeast produce. I’ve read the phenolic clove contribution comes from low temp ferulic acid rest.

The Herrmann Verfahren mash technique can increase glucose and ferulic acid. …but it’s all for nothing without the yeast.  So I don’t think it can be substituted.


One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

was listening to something about that today, and i had heard it before - but glucose aka dextrose - if you added dextrose to the beer wouldnt that increase banana esters?

[brewthru]

i do love thought experiments, i have so far had a lot of trouble using baking/kitchen grade extracts to really transmit significant flavour to my beers, ie. vanilla, almond, chocolate extracts. they are either barely noticeable or different tasting.

My Vanilla Cream Ale is a much requested homebrew by wife and relatives. 3 oz pure vanilla at kegging time. Yum.

[brewthru]

I definitely want the banana in the hefe as wifey really enjoys. I'll admit last batch wasn't as much banana as I would have preferred so I added a bottle of the banana flavoring (Brewing Gods... please forgive me).

What is the assertive suggestion for a Banana Hefe (without adding banana flavoring)?

[BrewBama]

Glucose. To get the banana ester(s) you need glucose. The Herrmann method is about converting maltose to glucose, thereby increasing banana esters. Basically, You mash half of the grain in steps, then go back to your original mash-in temp, and mash the other half. The maltase created by the first half supposedly helps convert the maltose in the second half into glucose. … or just mash normally and add glucose at the end of the boil if you aren’t bound by the Reinheitsgebot.

Yeast. The yeast selection is important. Some say underpitch and ferment at the high end of the temp range to emphasize more banana. Caution: Too warm (or too cold) fermentation will cause the phenols and esters to be out of balance and may create off-flavors.  You should aim for clove and banana vs one or the other IMO.

[jeffy]

I think the temperature range is the most important factor when using hefe yeast. My efforts yield more banana and less clove than I want, probably because the beer ferments in the higher portion of the range, mid-60's instead of lower 60's.
Several times I have mashed to include a ferulic acid rest and I don't think it made as much difference as the fermentation temperature.

[denny]

I definitely want the banana in the hefe as wifey really enjoys. I'll admit last batch wasn't as much banana as I would have preferred so I added a bottle of the banana flavoring (Brewing Gods... please forgive me).

What is the assertive suggestion for a Banana Hefe (without adding banana flavoring)?

Go here https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2024/04/29/episode-197-golden-clams/ and go to 1:07:30

[denny]

Glucose. To get the banana ester(s) you need glucose. The Herrmann method is about converting maltose to glucose, thereby increasing banana esters. Basically, You mash half of the grain in steps, then go back to your original mash-in temp, and mash the other half. The maltase created by the first half supposedly helps convert the maltose in the second half into glucose. … or just mash normally and add glucose at the end of the boil if you aren’t bound by the Reinheitsgebot.

Yeast. The yeast selection is important. Some say underpitch and ferment at the high end of the temp range to emphasize more banana. Caution: Too warm (or too cold) fermentation will cause the phenols and esters to be out of balance and may create off-flavors.  You should aim for clove and banana vs one or the other IMO.

Listen to https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2024/04/29/episode-197-golden-clams/ at 1:07:30

[brewthru]

As Denny suggested I goto https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2024/04/29/episode-197-golden-clams/

However, I click the Download and nothing happens.