[CounterPressure]

Just looking on the MB homepage and there's a tile for home brew can seamers.  I see they've come down in price a ton since years ago when a canning line was 100 grand or so.  So ok, now you can get a can seamer, but the cans are a fortune.  I can buy them already full of beer for less money than I can buy the empty cans.   When is someone going to make a machine to use a piece of coil stock and just make the can on-site?  I see several size cans are well over $1/can, even when buying by the pallet.     The one-time price of the machine itself isn't so bad, but add in the can cost and that's got to be a seriously niche item.  I don't enjoy bottling with CO2 and I get to re-use the bottles (provided folks will actually return them...).  I certainly won't be canning any time soon.

I just find it hard to believe there's a lot of folks doing home canning with single-use cans at that price.  Somebody has to get the /can cost down by selling coil stock and a can roller.  The shipping and just the size of a carton makes them prohibitive.  What say ye...

[denny]

I say the market would be infinitesimally small.

[John M]

Just looking on the MB homepage and there's a tile for home brew can seamers.  I see they've come down in price a ton since years ago when a canning line was 100 grand or so.  So ok, now you can get a can seamer, but the cans are a fortune.  I can buy them already full of beer for less money than I can buy the empty cans.   When is someone going to make a machine to use a piece of coil stock and just make the can on-site?  I see several size cans are well over $1/can, even when buying by the pallet.     The one-time price of the machine itself isn't so bad, but add in the can cost and that's got to be a seriously niche item.  I don't enjoy bottling with CO2 and I get to re-use the bottles (provided folks will actually return them...).  I certainly won't be canning any time soon.

I just find it hard to believe there's a lot of folks doing home canning with single-use cans at that price.  Somebody has to get the /can cost down by selling coil stock and a can roller.  The shipping and just the size of a carton makes them prohibitive.  What say ye...

If you're surprised by that, start observing how much fancy stainless homebrewers buy, just because it's cool. Lots of folks get a kick out of emulating craft breweries.

[Drewch]

I have wondered why no one's invented reusable cans yet.

Or fully opaque PET bottles.

Or aluminum bottles.

I mean if someone could sell me 4 dozen swing-top metal 50cl bottles, I'd be just about set for life.  The durability and opacity of metal with the reusability of bottles. 🤷‍♂️

[CounterPressure]

I say the market would be infinitesimally small.

It certainly has to be at the price of the cans today. You can look in the reviews and see people who supposedly bought the things but I just have my doubts that it's worth it to anyone.

If you're surprised by that, start observing how much fancy stainless homebrewers buy, just because it's cool. Lots of folks get a kick out of emulating craft breweries.

Guilty as charged, I have a few pieces of nice stainless steel kit. But I only bought it once and I don't hand it out to people every time I give them a beer. And if I did hand it out to people, they don't throw it away after they drink the beer. What we're talking about here is one massive recurring cost.

We all scratch our heads at what somebody else might do for recreation and what they might spend, and sometimes we see stuff where we think people truly are out of their mind. I'm not here to say what somebody else should or should not buy. I own a business and I look at this from a strictly business standpoint and I think, who would buy these things? The consumables cost is unbelievable. I can't believe there's even an entry point into the market, and yet they have the things in stock to sell. My back of the napkin math tells me that I would add about $50 to every 5 gallon batch of beer I make in order to package it this way. And that's if I'm really generous and I just completely ignore the cost of the machine.

Home Brewers for the most part are cost-conscious. Clearly some are not. Don't confuse that with me saying people are cheap, but generally speaking from what I've seen, people like to get some value for their money. That doesn't mean they won't spend some money, it just means they prefer to not throw it away. And they might even throw some away once in awhile, but they don't want to throw it away all the time. If we're going to have these disposable containers, how about something more akin to a Hawaiian Punch drink box. LOL

I have wondered why no one's invented reusable cans yet.

Or fully opaque PET bottles.

Or aluminum bottles.

I mean if someone could sell me 4 dozen swing-top metal 50cl bottles, I'd be just about set for life.  The durability and opacity of metal with the reusability of bottles. 🤷‍♂️

being serious here, for the price of what they're charging for these cans, you could take a couple iterations of that cost and do resealable stainless steel containers. And if they would make the can tall enough, you could cut the top off of it and clean it out and then use it again. LOL Take a look at the price of the things, we're talking about a buck and a half per can in some cases. Even at a dollar a can if we consider a 5 gallon batch, I'm adding $50 to that batch of beer so I can give it away or transport it. With all due respect, I can buy a hell of a good case of beer for 50 bucks. I consider myself to be one of the people who really enjoys my home brewing, and if you were to ask me what are the least favorite things I have about this, I would say cleaning kegs and packaging beer, in that order. So packaging beer doesn't ride high on my list of reasons I homebrew.

[HopDen]

Just looking on the MB homepage and there's a tile for home brew can seamers.  I see they've come down in price a ton since years ago when a canning line was 100 grand or so.  So ok, now you can get a can seamer, but the cans are a fortune.  I can buy them already full of beer for less money than I can buy the empty cans.   When is someone going to make a machine to use a piece of coil stock and just make the can on-site?  I see several size cans are well over $1/can, even when buying by the pallet.     The one-time price of the machine itself isn't so bad, but add in the can cost and that's got to be a seriously niche item.  I don't enjoy bottling with CO2 and I get to re-use the bottles (provided folks will actually return them...).  I certainly won't be canning any time soon.

I just find it hard to believe there's a lot of folks doing home canning with single-use cans at that price.  Somebody has to get the /can cost down by selling coil stock and a can roller.  The shipping and just the size of a carton makes them prohibitive.  What say ye...

If you're surprised by that, start observing how much fancy stainless homebrewers buy, just because it's cool. Lots of folks get a kick out of emulating craft breweries.

Count me among the "cool" because it actually is LOL! I don't think it's a matter of "wanting" to be cool or emulating a craft brewery. Personally, it was a matter of buying what I could afford in the hopes that it made my brewing experience as effecient as possible for the money spent. And it has. Has it helped me make great tasting beer better? Yes!  Can one make great beer with a keggle and a couple gott coolers? Absolutely one can. That's how I learned to make AG brews. Cheers!! Happy Brewing!

[CounterPressure]

On the topic of resealable cans, a couple years ago a friend of mine from out of state came and stayed and they brought a case of Miller Lite because that's what they drink. It was a case of Miller Lite cans with screw on lids. Yes they are resealable, but I don't know how well they would seal the second time. I don't know if you people have seen them but they do exist and the can is definitely heavier than a regular can. You almost can't stomp them. He left a bunch here, and I have one other friend who occasionally stops in and also drinks that swill, but I know there is at least a can or two in the fridge in my garage to this day. And that's from 2020 or so.  That actually seems like a far better Homebrew packaging system then the current idea of these ridiculous priced one time use cans and canning machines.

[CounterPressure]

Omg, I was going to go find a picture of one and post it and I see that you can buy them empty on ebay. LMAO you can't make this stuff up. They must be some kind of a collectors item. Just Google Miller Lite screw top can for images. They had 16 and 24 oz ones it would appear.

[BrewBama]

I think cans are used because homebrewers want to take their beers to locations that don’t allow glass and/or they want the better oxidation protection cans provide.  I guess there is a cool factor as well. IDK. I keg for serving here, fill bottles for competitions and club meetings, growlers for friends/family.

As far as cost:  If a homebrewer wants to outfit a top-of-the-line brewery to including a canning line that’s their prerogative.  Every hobby has the minimalist, the budget minded, and several levels of hobbyist beyond.  To each his own.


One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

[denny]

What I was getting at is that there are only a very small number of homebrewers who have banners. Those who would want to make their own cans is a fraction of that.

[John M]

Just looking on the MB homepage and there's a tile for home brew can seamers.  I see they've come down in price a ton since years ago when a canning line was 100 grand or so.  So ok, now you can get a can seamer, but the cans are a fortune.  I can buy them already full of beer for less money than I can buy the empty cans.   When is someone going to make a machine to use a piece of coil stock and just make the can on-site?  I see several size cans are well over $1/can, even when buying by the pallet.     The one-time price of the machine itself isn't so bad, but add in the can cost and that's got to be a seriously niche item.  I don't enjoy bottling with CO2 and I get to re-use the bottles (provided folks will actually return them...).  I certainly won't be canning any time soon.

I just find it hard to believe there's a lot of folks doing home canning with single-use cans at that price.  Somebody has to get the /can cost down by selling coil stock and a can roller.  The shipping and just the size of a carton makes them prohibitive.  What say ye...

If you're surprised by that, start observing how much fancy stainless homebrewers buy, just because it's cool. Lots of folks get a kick out of emulating craft breweries.

Count me among the "cool" because it actually is LOL! I don't think it's a matter of "wanting" to be cool or emulating a craft brewery. Personally, it was a matter of buying what I could afford in the hopes that it made my brewing experience as effecient as possible for the money spent. And it has. Has it helped me make great tasting beer better? Yes!  Can one make great beer with a keggle and a couple gott coolers? Absolutely one can. That's how I learned to make AG brews. Cheers!! Happy Brewing!

My thinking was on fermenters mostly. I've been fortunate enough to have the means to splurge on about any homebrewing equipment I may want, however I am all about practicality. I have two Spike kettles, and a Brewzilla now. I am a huge advocate of Speidel fermenters, for so many reasons. But I'd buy fancy stainless conicals in a heartbeat if anyone could convince me that I'd produce evenly slightly better beer because of it.

[CounterPressure]

My thinking was on fermenters mostly. I've been fortunate enough to have the means to splurge on about any homebrewing equipment I may want, however I am all about practicality. I have two Spike kettles, and a Brewzilla now. I am a huge advocate of Speidel fermenters, for so many reasons. But I'd buy fancy stainless conicals in a heartbeat if anyone could convince me that I'd produce evenly slightly better beer because of it.

Here's how I look at this. I have a stainless conical fermenter, it's really nice, but right at this moment it is sitting in the exact same stand up freezer with two big mouth bubblers. Does one make better beer than the next? No. I'll be the first one to say it. Does it make better beer than my buckets? No. Does it have some additional options? That's a tough one to answer. I purchased a used Morebeer 12 gallon conical with no stand, which is no big deal because I own a machine shop. And it came without the lid because for some ungodly reason the person bought it without. So I went and bought the proper lid with the proper seals and I had the full thing. The lid cost as much as I paid for the fermenter by the way. It's not realistically able to take more than about 3 PSI so you can't pressure ferment. No big deal. I really like it, but it is more of a pain to clean than the big mouth bubblers or my plastic bucket and there is no chance of me lifting it when it's full, which I can even do with my 15 gallon plastic bucket. I also have other smaller buckets, I use them very seldom but one is in use right now.

So let's just say I'm not an equipment snob. If I wanted some other piece of gear, I would go buy it. Within some reason of course. Let's be clear here, guys go out and spend $100,000 on a bass boat and they don't think a thing of it, and it doesn't bother me one bit. I can buy a s***load of fish for a hundred grand. For that kind of money I can hire nude dancers to cook it and serve it to me. I still don't question their decision to buy a bass boat. It doesn't change my lifestyle one bit.

This isn't about whether or not there are a few people who could afford to do this. I guess I'm just a product of a depression era family and I try not to be frivolous. Yes, I could afford to flush $50 per batch down the drain and it will not change my lifestyle. That's not the point. The point is for the demographic this is aimed at, I just don't see where buying premade cans at an astronomical markup is beneficial to anybody but the ones fleecing people for the cans. I can assure you Coors, Miller and Budweiser do not pay that much for cans. Because it's already more than a 30 pack costs with the beer in it. Maybe I'm the only guy who tries to push back on this kind of thing, but the more we give in on things like these cans that go to the recycle bin, the more everything else will go out of control.

[reverseapachemaster]

The economics would make it impossible at a homebrewer's volume--even a very thirsty homebrewer. Whatever money you save per can you're putting back into the cost of equipment, utilities to operate it and raw materials at a homebrewer's volume. We're also assuming you could buy liner and not have to buy an entire pallet at a time. There's a small market for homebrewers who want can seamers and the market for a home can manufacturing line would be so small that the cost of the equipment would be enormous due to the lack of scale.

We're basically talking about why virtually everything is cheaper at scale versus buying retail on an individual basis.

[HopDen]

Or you can make friends at your nearest local craft brewery and piggyback on their buying volume. Buy a can seamer and make contacts. I do it with grain purchases and it saves me a lot of money. You'd be surprised how much lower costs are for business's compared to online HBS's. Just a thought.

[CounterPressure]

Or you can make friends at your nearest local craft brewery and piggyback on their buying volume. Buy a can seamer and make contacts. I do it with grain purchases and it saves me a lot of money. You'd be surprised how much lower costs are for business's compared to online HBS's. Just a thought.

Here there's no such thing as a local hbs. Nothing within 100 miles I don't think. One place sells basic equipment, mostly geared to wine, but no grain or stuff like that. So mail order is about the only choice for ingredients.

As for craft breweries, one that would be great for what you mention, neither cans nor makes their own any more. They have great food and great beer and it's close, but source beer from other places. All of which are too far to travel. I used to belong to a brew club which was great, and have friends in that with a nano brewery over 10 years now. But they moved one direction and I moved the other, now were 45 miles apart. So gas and time would cost as much as shipping for bags of grain, though they will sell it to me cheap.  They also do not can.  Though I should say, this thread didn't begin with me having a desire to start canning. I was just shocked at the egregious markup on the empty cans.

Another thing driving this is that in the LTL trucking world, you can ship 1000 pounds of steel for less than you can ship 100 pounds of empty cans. They don't like to haul low density items. Not even a little bit.