[mgrady]

Hello!  I was working on a Saison recipe, and wanted to ask around to see other people's suggestions.  I was planning on adding the zest from 1 orange and 1/4 of a grapefruit the last 5 minutes of the boil, but I kind of wanted to add peppercorns as well.  I have read a little bit on Saisons and have noticed collectively they (authors) stress on not adding too much spices to a Saison as it takes away from the true taste of Saison.  So my quesion is should I add peppercorns to the mix or just leave it alone w/ the orange and grapefruit zest?  If I have found peppercorns add a good taste to your Saisons can you share w/ me how much you added?  Do you think the peppercorn will not match well w/ the orange or grapefruit zest?  Thanks for your time!

[denny]

If you're adding orange and grapefruit rind to a saison, all bets are off already.  Go ahead with the peppercorns.  I'd recommend a combo of red, green, and white.  Personally, I'd do either that or the citrus, but not both.  I've found a total of 15-20 peppercorns is plenty.

[mgrady]

Thanks for the tip.  Have you found the peppercorn works better w/ a Saison or the citrus addition?

[yso191]

My contribution is this: less is more.

I had a Saison with peppercorn recently, brewed by an excellent regional brewery, that on the first and second sips, it was awesome.  However, with each sip the heat grew.  By the end of the pint my palate was ruined for hours.

[denny]

Thanks for the tip.  Have you found the peppercorn works better w/ a Saison or the citrus addition?

IMO, citrus additions have no place in a true saison.  Which to use is subjective, though, and depends on wht you want.

[denny]

My contribution is this: less is more.

I had a Saison with peppercorn recently, brewed by an excellent regional brewery, that on the first and second sips, it was awesome.  However, with each sip the heat grew.  By the end of the pint my palate was ruined for hours.

Hence my recommendation for 15 peppercorns max.  You want a hint of the flavor, not the heat.

[goose]

I always spice my Saison with freshly ground peppercorns as well as with small amounts of dried sweet orange peel and coriander.  This was based on what Charlie Papazian recommended for his Saisons and it works well with the beer.

I only use about 1/4 tsp of the freshly ground peppercorns in a 10 gallon batch and have won several medals with this beer.  Agree with Denny. Just be careful and don't overdo it or it will make the beer too hot.  You want a hint of spice not overwhelming spice.

This is also another recipe that my wife threatened to go Lorena Bobbit on me if I changed the recipe! 

[denny]

I always spice my Saison with freshly ground peppercorns as well as with small amounts of dried sweet orange peel and coriander.  This was based on what Charlie Papazian recommended for his Saisons and it works well with the beer.

I only use about 1/4 tsp of the freshly ground peppercorns in a 10 gallon batch and have won several medals with this beer.  Agree with Denny. Just be careful and don't overdo it or it will make the beer too hot.  You want a hint of spice not overwhelming spice.

This is also another recipe that my wife threatened to go Lorena Bobbit on me if I changed the recipe! 

IIRCl Charlie was traditional and used bitter orange peel.  The coriander is for the orange/lemon flavor

[reverseapachemaster]

Is your goal a spiced saison with identifiable spice flavors or using spices to add complexity to the beer? The answer to how much and what spices to use varies depending upon that goal.

I am not a particular fan of adding peppercorns to saison but I use a lot of citrus fruit peel in saisons. I don't think typical grocery store sweet orange peel adds much interesting flavor. I like grapefruit peel a lot. I would add any peel as a post-boil steep to keep more of the flavor in the beer, unless you're only adding peel for pithy bitterness.

[denny]

I always spice my Saison with freshly ground peppercorns as well as with small amounts of dried sweet orange peel and coriander.  This was based on what Charlie Papazian recommended for his Saisons and it works well with the beer.

I only use about 1/4 tsp of the freshly ground peppercorns in a 10 gallon batch and have won several medals with this beer.  Agree with Denny. Just be careful and don't overdo it or it will make the beer too hot.  You want a hint of spice not overwhelming spice.

This is also another recipe that my wife threatened to go Lorena Bobbit on me if I changed the recipe! 

IIRCl Charlie was traditional and used bitter orange peel.  The coriander is for the orange/lemon flavor

My memory has failed once again.   I was thinking wit, not saison.

[Robert]

I always spice my Saison with freshly ground peppercorns as well as with small amounts of dried sweet orange peel and coriander.  This was based on what Charlie Papazian recommended for his Saisons and it works well with the beer.

I only use about 1/4 tsp of the freshly ground peppercorns in a 10 gallon batch and have won several medals with this beer.  Agree with Denny. Just be careful and don't overdo it or it will make the beer too hot.  You want a hint of spice not overwhelming spice.

This is also another recipe that my wife threatened to go Lorena Bobbit on me if I changed the recipe! 

IIRCl Charlie was traditional and used bitter orange peel.  The coriander is for the orange/lemon flavor

My memory has failed once again.   I was thinking wit, not saison.

But you might have been right by accident,  Denny.  The one Saison I really like is the benchmark (I think,) DuPont.   It's just Pilsner malt, Golding and Styrian hops, no other flavors.   As originally seems to have been the rule.  Though spiced Saisons go back a way.  Micheal Jackson reported in the 80s that a couple existed, and mentioned liquorice root as a possible spice (?!).  The one thing that seems to define the style is that they should be refreshing and quaffable, as they were originally Summer refreshers for farm workers.   If the spice gets in the way of this quality (peppercorns light your mouth on fire,) I'd say it's out of place.  If it enhances it, go ahead.  Brewer's choice in country beers.

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