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Author Topic: Grain Mills In General  (Read 738 times)

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2024, 10:18:44 am »
GEA mills have big rollers that are groved. The barley is wet milled, and the kernels are sheared to preserve the husks for lautering.

https://www.gea.com/en/products/brewery-systems/brewhouse/milling-mashing/gea-millstar/
I wasn't trying to imply there are no decent commercial mills available. That thing is certainly not something a home brewer is going to buy. All I need to see is where it says on the page, request a quote, and I know it's some ridiculous price. Not that it isn't probably worth it, just it's not a homebrew piece of kit. I'm not worried about explosions with 20 lb of grain so I don't need to wet mill. I'm pretty sure I made a nicer mill than anything available at any of the online Homebrew shops, and it was neither a ton of work or money. It's just a shame there aren't ones similar available to buy at a reasonable price.

I was showing that there are mills with big rollers. Yes it's commercial, and used in breweries like Sierra Nevada, Bell's, Firestone Walker and so on. German made, all the tech you could want.

Wet milling has applications for breweries with lauter tuns, as the husks aren't broken up. The the water is stripped of O2, hot, and the full amount for the mash is used.

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Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2024, 11:48:54 am »
IIRC, I think it was Ken ____ from Sierra Nevada I saw in an interview talking about a mill, and it may well have been one of them.  I don't know.  It milled and added water on the fly, and it was a semi-major thing for them to acquire, or so he made it out to be. I think, again assuming it was his video I'm remembering, it came from Europe somewhere.  There were shots of it in the video, but not much to see really, other than to listen to him discuss it. 

In any case, what I'd prefer to see is a mill in the $250 range that performs like mine and is virtually guaranteed to last a lifetime.  I'd bet serious money on mine being able to do that in the most demanding home-brewer scenario.  Not sure I wouldn't bet a little money it would do it in a commercial setting.

Offline brewthru

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2024, 04:23:17 pm »
My first maltmill was a JSP. I even sold the JSP maltmills for a number of years. My JSP maltmill lasted for a number of years and then the milling got worse and worse. I understand this is a common problem with the JSP. Unfortunately, Jack Schmidling is no longer with us. Therefore, I purchased and motorized a 3 roller mill from MoreBeer. I've been happy. No more sweating while cranking the mill. I've gotten into the habit of milling the day before in a different room than my brewroom to mitigate any mill dust.

I still have the JSP maltmill if anyone know how I can fix it.

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2024, 05:32:48 pm »
What do you mean by the Milling got worse?

Offline brewthru

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2024, 06:02:37 pm »
Mashing efficiency decreased. Obvious when looking at the "crush".

I'm definately in the market for an easily adjustable, reliable 3 roller maltmill.

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2024, 06:29:55 pm »
You can't just tighten it up some and make it crush finer?

And I'm just curious, what exactly does the third roller do?

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2024, 05:54:53 am »
You can't just tighten it up some and make it crush finer?

And I'm just curious, what exactly does the third roller do?

The third roller on my mill mostly causes it jam up at start of every milling session. 8^(

Once I get it unstuck, it works great but I can't say exactly what it does to help out the crush.

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2024, 06:42:53 am »
You can't just tighten it up some and make it crush finer?

And I'm just curious, what exactly does the third roller do?

The third roller on my mill mostly causes it jam up at start of every milling session. 8^(

Once I get it unstuck, it works great but I can't say exactly what it does to help out the crush.

Paul
Ok, sorta confirms my suspicion.

I went to Morebeer yesterday after asking that and checked out a video of the geared mill they have.  There's 2 options, 2 roller and 3.  The guy says at the start, paraphrasing, "we're using my kit I have at home to show this" and he shows the 2 roller mill.  There's virtually no mention of the 3 roller other than to say yea, we have a 3 roller mill and it's up to you to decide....  Uhhhh, yea, looks like you already decided the 3rd roller wasn't worth the additional money. Hehehe. 

I just tried to reason it out mechanically, and I can't see how the grain gets to use that third roller for anything meaningful.  I mean, how does it even get offset to the one side where that roller is?  I've never watched closely the grain exiting my mill, but I assume it's headed straight down into the bucket, not interested in turning to one side to go through another gap again. 

Now if they had 4 rollers, ok, now we're talking.  That I could see doing something.  But 3?  The marketing says it helps with the husk somehow. I still don't understand what that means when the grain is crushed.  As long as it's crushed, does it really matter what the husk does?  I figure it's coming apart in the water later regardless, so why do we care? 

I bought a bag of Weyermann Vienna last year and the grains were smaller than the other stuff I use.  That caused me to really close up my gap because I don't separate grain when I mill, I put the entire grist into a bucket and toss it in, so the smallest stuff determines the setting I need.  Precise adjustability is nice for getting dialed in, but meaningless in my world as far as quick changes. It looks like the mill they show on MB is really adjustable quickly, so that looks like a nice feature. And the 2 roller mill is quite affordable.  I'd still rather see less knurling, especially on a geared mill like that.  Pick one or the other, but not both.  It either needs gears or huge knurls. With the gears, that grain IS going through, I don't care about how deep it's knurled.  I think the deep grooves actually lends itself to inconsistency.  Seriously, some small grain will sneak through if you're not milling close enough.  And the more variation there is in the grain sizes, the more the deep grooves add to the potential problem.

All this discussion has me tempted to build a smooth roller mill just to be able to say I did... My plumber buddy got me the scrap Sch 40 pipe years ago, both in large steel and smaller 3-1/2" stainless. The SS is only Sch 20 though so it might need more support in the center of a 6" roller, and I only have enough of it for one 2 roller mill.  Sorta pointless when I can think of about 500 bigger fish to fry in my brewing process. Like working on the yeast the way I should before beginning a batch... lol.

Offline goose

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2024, 08:26:30 am »
It's like anything else. They charge what they know people will pay.

I have a Crankandstein mill, and I see no reason why I won't be handing it down to my boys someday. Been using it heavily for 12 years, and it's still like new. I took it all apart recently and thoroughly cleaned it, just because.

I too have a Crankandstein mill and love it.  I had a JSP mill that the rollers wore out on (full disclosure, I got it from a homebrew shop that went out of business so it was heavily used).  So I bougth the Crankandstein mill and haven't looked back.

That said, if you are using the mill of your choice for homebrewing it should last you a lifetime.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2024, 08:39:50 am »
Timely post for me. I bought a crankandstein adjustable 2-roller mill back in 2010, and it worked splendidly until very recently. I’m not sure if it is the malt (Admiral Feldblume is made from a uniquely-grown barley cultivar) or the mill. But it is not catching the malt, I am not getting a good crush, and I brewed to beers side by side and got wildly different efficiencies.

I’m not sure if I need to replace my mill or if I should take it apart and clean it (something I’ve never done). It is a 14 year-old mill that has been well-used for a long time, so I’m considering cleaning it without taking it apart (flashbacks to when I repaired my fresh pasta maker that never worked right again) and maybe just keeping it as a backup.

Even if I do buy a new mill, I’m not sure what I want. I know I want it to work and to be able to run off a corded electric drill. Any thoughts?

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2024, 09:17:09 am »
Timely post for me. I bought a crankandstein adjustable 2-roller mill back in 2010, and it worked splendidly until very recently. I’m not sure if it is the malt (Admiral Feldblume is made from a uniquely-grown barley cultivar) or the mill. But it is not catching the malt, I am not getting a good crush, and I brewed to beers side by side and got wildly different efficiencies.

I’m not sure if I need to replace my mill or if I should take it apart and clean it (something I’ve never done). It is a 14 year-old mill that has been well-used for a long time, so I’m considering cleaning it without taking it apart (flashbacks to when I repaired my fresh pasta maker that never worked right again) and maybe just keeping it as a backup.

Even if I do buy a new mill, I’m not sure what I want. I know I want it to work and to be able to run off a corded electric drill. Any thoughts?
I would get a 2 roller mill with gears that always keep both rollers moving. 

Offline skyler

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2024, 01:17:40 pm »
I would get a 2 roller mill with gears that always keep both rollers moving. 

Do you have any recommendations? The only 2-roller mill I can find that is geared is this one https://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11 and I don’t like that the sides are exposed. On the plus side, I could probably reuse my existing hopper and base.

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2024, 02:19:54 pm »
I would get a 2 roller mill with gears that always keep both rollers moving. 

Do you have any recommendations? The only 2-roller mill I can find that is geared is this one https://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11 and I don’t like that the sides are exposed. On the plus side, I could probably reuse my existing hopper and base.
If you read through the thread, I mentioned that I own a manufacturing shop and I made my own. Pictures of it are above, but you do have to right click and open in a new window to see them. If you want to know what I would build, it would be exactly that but I would add the gears to the side even though they are clearly not necessary. Unfortunately, I didn't want shafts sticking out all over the place so I didn't make my shafts long enough to add the gears after the fact. Such is life.
Commercially made units all have much smaller rollers so they don't grab the grain anywhere near as nice as mine does. But I would figure the gear driven units have no issue with that. I don't own any of them but if I didn't have a mill that I made, that is what I would buy.

Offline CounterPressure

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2024, 02:30:31 pm »
I was thinking something more like this but with only two rollers. I'm not sure but maybe their two roller version doesn't have the gears. Seems like the stupidest thing ever. But I guess that's nothing new, I haven't been able to figure these manufacturers out for years.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/mighty-mill-3-roller-grain.html

Offline skyler

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Re: Grain Mills In General
« Reply #29 on: Today at 08:18:19 am »
I was thinking something more like this but with only two rollers. I'm not sure but maybe their two roller version doesn't have the gears. Seems like the stupidest thing ever. But I guess that's nothing new, I haven't been able to figure these manufacturers out for years.

As it happens, I work near MoreBeer’s original showroom in Concord, California; I went and took a look at the 2-roller Mighty Mill and confirmed that it was not geared. So I ordered the Crankandstein 2DG. I will have to build some sides for it (thinking of using aluminum tape and plastic from a takeout container or similar), but it is geared and much cheaper than a geared 3-roller and it can run off a normal-sized corded drill. Crankandstein does make a fully-geared 3-roller and sells a “pro” version that is basically what you describe wanting https://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=28 for a not-horrible $350, but even that uses only 2” thick rollers, so you probably would want something tougher.

Anyway, I figure I can reuse my hopper and maybe the base, and 14 years of good service seems like a decent amount that I shouldn’t gripe about the old one dying.